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SW
Joined: 08 Sep 2009
Location: Korea
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 Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:07 am Post subject: 10 Reasons to Hate Seoul |
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In the spirit of 10 Reasons to Hate New York, here are 10 reasons (IMO) to hate Seoul.
1. Poop. The odor of human stool is constantly wafting up from the sewers, and it's worse in Seoul than I ever remember it being back in Gyeonggi-do, especially on hot days. There's also a lot of dog and cat poop lying around, especially in the backstreets of Itaewon.
2. High cost of living. I believe Seoul oscillates between being the 3rd and 4th most expensive city in the world. Not exactly an ideal place to go to save money.
3. Hills and steep grades. Probably due to overpopulation, Seoul has a great many residential areas that are built on hills and steep grades (think the foothills of Namsan). It might be one of the only places on earth where you'd have to walk to work uphill both ways. And there's few things worse than climbing a nearly vertical grade to get back to your apartment after a miserable day at work when it's scorching hot outside.
4. Crowds. The sidewalks and subway stations are choked with people, many of whom are not paying attention to their surroundings and are walking at an unbearably slow pace. I suppose I shouldn't complain about the standing room-only subways and buses, since their service is reliable, and they make good practice for stuff like surfing, gymnastics, and getting over severe claustrophobia.
5. The weather. Fall is okay, but miserable extremes in both winter and summer, with barely any spring, and a long rainy season. Bad weather is exacerbated by everything previously mentioned on this list.
6. The traffic. No elaboration needed.
7. Filth and pollution. The air you're huffing in as you struggle up that hill or subway station stairwell ain't good air. You probably wouldn't want to go for a swim in the Han, either. What's more, there's lots of litter and cigarette butts lying alongside the aforementioned poop. Noise pollution is also a constant problem. You'll never get used to car horns suddenly blaring behind your back as you walk down the street, no matter how many times it happens.
8. North Korean artillery. Though there is some doubt about how well they've maintained them, North Korea does have thousands upon thousands of artillery tubes (some of them loaded with chemical shells) aimed at Seoul, and word is they've recently revised their war plans to make totally annihilating the city their number one priority, should the Korean War heat up again.
9. Seoulites. The fact that they live in Seoul doesn't make them more tolerant of foreigners - it just means they got tired of foreign shenanigans a long time ago.
10. The "expat" "community." Please don't get mad unless I'm talking about you. Yes, I know there are a great many interesting foreigners living in Seoul. I've met them. But those people we've all heard about - the ones who only come to Korea to collect a paycheck while living the same lifestyle they lived during their university years - seem to gravitate to Seoul. It's not so much an "expat community" as it is an exile community.
To those who do like/love living in Seoul, I say "to each his or her own," and also thank you. You stay out of the provinces, leaving more jobs for me to take, and I escape from Seoul, leaving one more position for you to fill. Everybody wins. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:22 am Post subject: Re: 10 Reasons to Hate Seoul |
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| SW wrote: |
| 1. Poop. The odor of human stool is constantly wafting up from the sewers, and it's worse in Seoul than I ever remember it being back in Gyeonggi-do, especially on hot days. There's also a lot of dog and cat poop lying around, especially in the backstreets of Itaewon. |
You forgot to mention the stench of human dung inside  and just outside Seoul Station.
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| 7. Filth and pollution. The air you're huffing in as you struggle up that hill or subway station stairwell ain't good air. You probably wouldn't want to go for a swim in the Han, either. What's more, there's lots of litter and cigarette butts lying alongside the aforementioned poop. Noise pollution is also a constant problem. You'll never get used to car horns suddenly blaring behind your back as you walk down the street, no matter how many times it happens. |
The volume of litter everywhere in Korea is shocking. More than a few neighborhoods look like garbage dumps thanks to that.
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| 9. Seoulites. The fact that they live in Seoul doesn't make them more tolerant of foreigners - it just means they got tired of foreign shenanigans a long time ago. |
All it means, really, is that they've a new reason to hate someone: "Not from Seoul." Of course, that's not everyone; however, some days it seems that way.
As you say, though, there are a great many interesting people and things there. What's your Top Ten Reasons to Like Seoul? |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:37 am Post subject: |
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| 10 Reasons to Hate Seoul |
1) Adjosshis often seem to spoil the atmosphere with some combination of rude, wierd or nosey behaviour.
2) Filth The streets just seem so grimy and dirty. Trash is everywhere.
3) smell Summer brings the sewer smell above ground. It also gets pretty acrid on the subway.
4) community Foreigners exist on the fringes or outside of society. The expat scene can be disappointing at times.
5) xenephobia Is not always blatant but its there all the same and can be subtly alientating.
6) noise 24/7 off the street
7) Traffic is somewhat chaotic and dangerous. Wherever you go, even into the countryside...there are cars bearing down on you.
 weather is great in spring and autumn but summer is extremely humid and rainy, and winter is brutally cold and dry.
9) crowds are unavoidable..anywhere, anytime.
10) Public behaviour can be irritating and is quite out of synch with western norms.
Last edited by Junior on Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:03 am Post subject: Re: 10 Reasons to Hate Seoul |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| What's your Top Ten Reasons to Like Seoul? |
1) Lack of crime You are generally safe from theft, assault or petty crime
2) Convenience You can buy anything, get medical treatment, a job..at short notice.
3) Cost of living strikes me as reasonable and gives good saving potential for your earnings.
4) Public transport is relatively good. Reliable and cheap busses and subway.
5) Women are hot and easy to hook up with. Although there can be a lot of difficulties to relationships here.
6) Food is tasty and healthy
7) Exotic-ness There is an unfathomable appeal here that is appreciated by those who like travel..
Anonymity for those who enjoy the freedom of that..
9)Koreans Once you know them over time, there is a refreshing innocence and genuine-ness to the people that is lacking with many westerners.
10) Lack of Political Correctness You can just be yourself without having to watch what you're saying and doing too much.. E.g. ...if you're a smoker you will appreciate being able to smoke anywhere without being told off.. |
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Oatmeal Prince
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:28 am Post subject: Re: 10 Reasons to Hate Seoul |
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| Junior wrote: |
| CentralCali wrote: |
| What's your Top Ten Reasons to Like Seoul? |
1) Lack of crime You are generally safe from theft, assault or petty crime
2) Convenience You can buy anything, get medical treatment, a job..at short notice.
3) Cost of living strikes me as reasonable and gives good saving potential for your earnings.
4) Public transport is relatively good. Reliable and cheap busses and subway.
5) Women are hot and easy to hook up with. Although there can be a lot of difficulties to relationships here.
6) Food is tasty and healthy
7) Exotic-ness There is an unfathomable appeal here that is appreciated by those who like travel..
Anonymity for those who enjoy the freedom of that..
9)Koreans Once you know them over time, there is a refreshing innocence and genuine-ness to the people that is lacking with many westerners.
10) Lack of Political Correctness You can just be yourself without having to watch what you're saying and doing too much.. E.g. ...if you're a smoker you will appreciate being able to smoke anywhere without being told off.. |
Wow, the unintentional emoticon is perfectly positioned! |
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Louis VI
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
Location: In my Kingdom
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:39 am Post subject: Re: 10 Reasons to Hate Seoul |
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| SW wrote: |
| To those who do like/love living in Seoul, I say "to each his or her own," and also thank you. You stay out of the provinces, leaving more jobs for me to take, and I escape from Seoul, leaving one more position for you to fill. Everybody wins. |
Amen brother. The provinces are the best!
| Junior wrote: |
1) Lack of crime
2) Convenience
3) Cost of living
4) Public transport
5) Women
6) Food
7) Exotic-ness
8 ) Anonymity
9)Koreans
10) Lack of Political Correctness |
You think we're comparing the city to New York or Berlin? Where? 
Less crime in the provinces than Seoul bud. And the cost of living's much lower. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:57 am Post subject: Re: 10 Reasons to Hate Seoul |
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| Louis VI wrote: |
Less crime in the provinces than Seoul bud. And the cost of living's much lower. |
For housing, yes. Everything else though? Korea is pretty uniform when it comes to prices. |
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Chet Wautlands
Joined: 11 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:15 am Post subject: Re: 10 Reasons to Hate Seoul |
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| Oatmeal Prince wrote: |
| Junior wrote: |
| CentralCali wrote: |
| What's your Top Ten Reasons to Like Seoul? |
1) Lack of crime You are generally safe from theft, assault or petty crime
2) Convenience You can buy anything, get medical treatment, a job..at short notice.
3) Cost of living strikes me as reasonable and gives good saving potential for your earnings.
4) Public transport is relatively good. Reliable and cheap busses and subway.
5) Women are hot and easy to hook up with. Although there can be a lot of difficulties to relationships here.
6) Food is tasty and healthy
7) Exotic-ness There is an unfathomable appeal here that is appreciated by those who like travel..
Anonymity for those who enjoy the freedom of that..
9)Koreans Once you know them over time, there is a refreshing innocence and genuine-ness to the people that is lacking with many westerners.
10) Lack of Political Correctness You can just be yourself without having to watch what you're saying and doing too much.. E.g. ...if you're a smoker you will appreciate being able to smoke anywhere without being told off.. |
Wow, the unintentional emoticon is perfectly positioned! |
That is cool. Was this planned? |
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Mariella713
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:26 am Post subject: Re: 10 Reasons to Hate Seoul |
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| Where is all this human excrement that everyone is seeing? Do you take morning strolls by the sewers? Seriously, I (luckily) never see this. |
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BoholDiver
Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:45 am Post subject: |
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| Agreed with most of the top 10 reasons to hate and love, except for Korean food being healthy. And lack of crime, as long as you're a man, that's true. I would not want to be a 6 year old girl. |
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misher
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| 1. Poop. The odor of human stool is constantly wafting up from the sewers, and it's worse in Seoul than I ever remember it being back in Gyeonggi-do, especially on hot days. There's also a lot of dog and cat poop lying around, especially in the backstreets of Itaewon. |
The poop smell is pretty bad. I'm with you one that one. However, after living in France and Germany it isn't quite as bad.
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2. High cost of living. I believe Seoul oscillates between being the 3rd and 4th most expensive city in the world. Not exactly an ideal place to go to save money.
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This is probably my biggest gripe. I have no problem paying for an apartment when the conditions are okay. Vancouver, Canada apartments are ridiculous when it comes to rent but you are in Vancouver. The fact that I pay the same price for a "one room" that is practically half the size of a vancouver studio apt, in an area of Seoul that isn't that great is a bit annoying.
| Quote: |
| 3. Hills and steep grades. Probably due to overpopulation, Seoul has a great many residential areas that are built on hills and steep grades (think the foothills of Namsan). It might be one of the only places on earth where you'd have to walk to work uphill both ways. And there's few things worse than climbing a nearly vertical grade to get back to your apartment after a miserable day at work when it's scorching hot outside. |
Dealt with this a bit in Shinchon but really it wasn't a problem for me.
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| Crowds. The sidewalks and subway stations are choked with people, many of whom are not paying attention to their surroundings and are walking at an unbearably slow pace. I suppose I shouldn't complain about the standing room-only subways and buses, since their service is reliable, and they make good practice for stuff like surfing, gymnastics, and getting over severe claustrophobia. |
I agree. Crowds aren't something that is only in Korea but being someone from a small town, the crowds here get annoying. Riding the subway from Kangnam to Jamsil at night when I can barely breath due to the abundance of people is starting to get to me. It just seems like there is nowhere I can go to escape hordes of people. Even hiking in Kyongido isn't enough.
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| 5. The weather. Fall is okay, but miserable extremes in both winter and summer, with barely any spring, and a long rainy season. Bad weather is exacerbated by everything previously mentioned on this list. |
Agreed on this one with the exception to the winter. I love cold weather.
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| 6. The traffic. No elaboration needed. |
After almost getting run over the other day by a taxi driver trying to run a red light I'm with you on this one. I love living in Seoul for many reasons but the traffic safety i s simply appalling for such a technologically advanced nation. In a 3rd world country I would expect these kinds of things, but I never thought of Korea as a third world country and I still don't most of the time. THe motorbokes also have to go or be fined for ripping along the sidewalks at 70km/h and running lights.
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| 7. Filth and pollution. The air you're huffing in as you struggle up that hill or subway station stairwell ain't good air. You probably wouldn't want to go for a swim in the Han, either. What's more, there's lots of litter and cigarette butts lying alongside the aforementioned poop. Noise pollution is also a constant problem. You'll never get used to car horns suddenly blaring behind your back as you walk down the street, no matter how many times it happens. |
The noise is a bit much but then again I have found it no different in any city over 5 million people. After living in China I also find the pollution not to be that bad. It could be much worse. THere are also areas of Seoul that are quite clean too.
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8. North Korean artillery. Though there is some doubt about how well they've maintained them, North Korea does have thousands upon thousands of artillery tubes (some of them loaded with chemical shells) aimed at Seoul, and word is they've recently revised their war plans to make totally annihilating the city their number one priority, should the Korean War heat up again.
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not a problem for me. If North Korean people believed that if they killed themselves for the great leader, they would get 80 virgins and riches in the "heaven" then I would be a bit worried.
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| 9. Seoulites. The fact that they live in Seoul doesn't make them more tolerant of foreigners - it just means they got tired of foreign shenanigans a long time ago. |
True. I find Seoulites no less racist than the people in country side. The difference is that Seoulites will hold it in a bit more where many people in the country side will say something if they feel threatened. Actually if people in the country side KNOW that you are an ok person and can get past the weigookin evil outsider thing, most are pretty good people and are very welcoming. Seoulites not so much. This has been my experience so far anyways. in the countryside after telling Koreans that I am here studying Korean history, most warm up to me pretty quick. Seoulites over 40 years old, not so much.
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| 10. The "expat" "community." Please don't get mad unless I'm talking about you. Yes, I know there are a great many interesting foreigners living in Seoul. I've met them. But those people we've all heard about - the ones who only come to Korea to collect a paycheck while living the same lifestyle they lived during their university years - seem to gravitate to Seoul. It's not so much an "expat community" as it is an exile community. |
100% agreed. The ESL crowd has a lot of great people. Unfortunately for me , most of them are here for 1-2 years and then move on with little or no interest in anything Korean. That is fine, but for someone who is marrying into this culture, it is hard to relate to them hence the lack of desire to befriend any of them. Also from what I've seen, there is a tendency among the more long term ESL crowd for backstabbing and lack of assistance. It is probably because many know that this job can be done by any jack shmoe and as more basket weaving BA grads get online MA degrees they feel threatened. Hence the insecurity. I don't blame them. THey know almost anyone with the right education background (which doesn't take much to obtain) can do their cushy jobs. In my opinion ESLers in korea are not expats. Semantics aside, expats are people with good jobs/experience/qualifications that are PLACED abroad by their companies/governments. ESLers are economic migrants and before anyone gets defensive and wants to take a stab at me I have no problem admitting that I am an esl economic migrant as well and no more special than anybody else. |
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nukeday
Joined: 13 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| I agree with most of the above. The killer for me, as lame as it may sound, is the architecture. The cookie-cutter apartment buildings depress me. Even when I climb a fairly nice mountain on a perfect day, they are eyesores that bring me down. |
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Louis VI
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
Location: In my Kingdom
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:34 pm Post subject: Re: 10 Reasons to Hate Seoul |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Korea is pretty uniform when it comes to prices. |
You don't get around much eh? There's a surprising variation in pricing for everything from PC room rates to taxi base rates to motel rates to a can of Coke to a loaf of bread to a large pizza to a watermelon to a bowl of gimchi dzigae. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: 10 Reasons to Hate Seoul |
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| Junior wrote: |
10) Lack of Political Correctness You can just be yourself without having to watch what you're saying and doing too much.. E.g. ...if you're a smoker you will appreciate being able to smoke anywhere without being told off.. |
THIS.
Not everyone here believes that their version of moral order should be imposed by law upon the rest of society and that they have the right to never be offended or inconvenienced ever in their life. |
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SW
Joined: 08 Sep 2009
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:05 pm Post subject: Re: 10 Reasons to Hate Seoul |
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| Mariella713 wrote: |
| Where is all this human excrement that everyone is seeing? Do you take morning strolls by the sewers? Seriously, I (luckily) never see this. |
I think, as CentralCali wrote, to actually SEE the human poop, you'd have to go to Seoul Station. I haven't been there in over year, so I couldn't tell you for sure, but it would make sense given the amount of people there with limited access to bathrooms.
You are lucky indeed. Normally all it takes is walking by a large sewer grate, especially on a humid, non-windy day. It comes and goes sometimes, but when it is there, it lets you know, believe me. |
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