Korean Job Discussion Forums

Real Reality · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Location: Seoul

Have you ever noticed that foreigners are at the bottom of most personnel or staff lists? Do you think this is related to seniority? Have you ever noticed that some foreigners are completed omitted from staff or teacher lists?
For example, here is a list. Names are excluded.
Staff at a "good" language school.

1. Name: (Korean)
Duty: Director
Business under Charge: Management of the Foreign Language Learning Center
2. Korean
Researcher
Management
3. Korean
Researcher
Management
4. Korean
Researcher
Management of English Conversation
5. Korean
Chinese Teacher
Chinese Language Education
6. Korean
Japanese Teacher
Japanese Language Education
7. Korean
English Teacher
English Language Education
8. Korean
Janitress
Building management
9. Not Korean Name (Foreigner)
Native Speaker
English Conversation
10. Foreigner
Native Speaker
English Conversation
11. Foreigner
Native Speaker
English Conversation

mishlert · Joined: 13 Mar 2003 Location: On the 3rd rock from the sun

I work at a university and on the web sight each department is listed separately and the teachers in that department the same.
My name is in the Humanities(link) Department of English (link within).
Of course I'm listed after the Korean English teachers, but then again they all have a PhD and I have an M.A.
When I looked at last year's year book my picture was included in the teaching staff of the Department of English, after the Koreans.

Kristsoy · Joined: 23 Mar 2004

list? what list

Corporal · Joined: 25 Jan 2003

Who cares?

phaedrus · Joined: 13 Nov 2003 Location: I'm comin' to get ya.

Arthur Fonzerelli · Joined: 22 Jan 2003 Location: Suwon

Real Reality · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Location: Seoul

VanIslander · Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:06 pm Post subject:

It's comparable to being served last in a store.

Irritating a bit but understandable.

We can't even vote. It's not our country however much you think you should be treated equal.

Get over it, I suggest.

Most of the time we are treated better than the average Korean stranger because we are seen as guests.

Real Reality · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Location: Seoul

Arthur Fonzerelli wrote,
"Get a freaking PhD and you'll move up the list... until then shut your whiney mouth.."
1. You assume I do not have a PhD.
2. Do you think degrees and qualifications are the real issues?
(Please read below)

VanIslander wrote,
"Most of the time we are treated better than the average Korean stranger because we are seen as guests."

So, foreign professors are treated better? Is that why most get half the salary and benefits of a Korean professor (or Korean instructor with similar or fewer qualifications).
Salary of a Korean Professor at a Public (State) University
5,511 US$ per month (or 6,285,000 WON per month)
http://www.asiaweek.com/asiaweek/features/salaries/2000/popups/content/skor.html

How many foreign professors are welcome to stay at a university?
Recently we have become aware of 5 cases of employees (teachers) who have worked for 4 or more years, with the same employer, NOT being renewed. (4 years, 2 x 7 years, 8 years, 13 years,)

It has also become known the Ministry has sent a directive to schools, universities, etc, that teachers with Long service should not be re-employed. Those who have been told to date include University teachers, College teachers and some Epik teachers. It is a cynical attempt to prevent foreigners from getting tenure.
http://www.koreabridge.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3343

How well are foreigners treated at public universities?
In the case of a national or a public University, a foreigner is not permitted to be a full-time professor.
http://www.moj.go.kr/immi/08_english/02_business/e_1.html

VanIslander · Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 3:17 am Post subject:

The comparison I was making was with Korean strangers, as in: how we are treated on the streets. Koreans often aren't friendly toward someone they haven't been introduced to; yet, foreigners are often considered to be guests in their country (as explained by the adult students at my hagwon).

In universities I have no experience, but the other point stands: It's not our country. Public institutions are paid for by taxpayers money so favouring citizens over foreigners is a right (if not an utility).

To draw a parallel: There's all sorts of barriers to foreigners working in America.

As a Canadian with education and experience as a journalist I cannot work on most American newspapers except under strict restrictions. Likewise, in grad school I found out that many of the smaller U.S. colleges I would be qualified to teach at with a Master's degree are the same institutions that won't hire a Canadian (non-American). I wouldn't be surprised if tenure policies are similarly affected.

Real Reality, you often write in a matter-of-fact tone, but on this subject your value judgements are taking center stage. Which is fine. Ours simply differ.

Having your name at the bottom of a list is just indicative of a status foreigners are accorded in the general social hierarchy. I tried suggesting that the status may not be equal but it's not at the bottom either.

You can feel pained about it and say it shouldn't be so. I'll just say:

Get real and face reality.