Korean Job Discussion Forums

tomato · Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 3:57 am Post subject: Korean view of prejudice

Since most English-speaking foreigners in Korea make little effort to learn Korean, many Koreans think this is also true of me, so they act accordingly. Or, more specifically, they speak to me in English.

But you can't get conclusive evidence from inductive reasoning. So I see this as unfair.

Well-meaning Koreans tell me "Most foreigners don't speak Korean. Koreans seeing you for the first time doesn't know any differently, so they have to speak to you in English."

I try to answer that this is prejudicial, and that prejudice is wrong.
But there, I run into a snag.
How can I prove that prejudice is wrong?
I can't turn to science, because science is no help in making moral judgments.
Ditto for psychology.
How about religion, then?
I know very little about Buddhism, so I don't know what Buddhism teaches about prejudice.
My first impulse is to say that prejudice is contrary to the teachings of the Bible.
But how can I argue that?
Possibly by alluding to the parable of the Good Samaritan, but even that would be weak.

The Old Testament shows no clear teaching against prejudicial thinking; look how their military heros mowed down all those nasty Philistines and Canaanites.
The New Testament shows no clear teaching against prejudicial thinking; how many times does it say "Woe unto the scribes and Pharisees"?

Why, then, is prejudice considered wrong in our culture but not in Korean culture?
Most likely for historical reasons. Korea has been a hermit kingdom for hundreds of years and Great Britain hasn't.

Great Britain and France have fought with other and they have gotten along fine with each other. But there is one thing they never did, and that's ignore each other.

None of the other English-speaking countries have been ethnically homogeneous. They have had racial minorities, and they have had immigrant groups from other countries. Consequently, all the English-speaking people have had to co-exist with other ethnic groups.

Korea, on the other hand, remained isolated from the rest of the world as recently as the 1900's. Unlike Korea, Japan was modernizing, industrializing, and Westerning. Japan wanted Korea for a prosperous trading partner, so Japan became very frustrated.

And this brought on . . . well, you know the rest of the story.

HardyandTiny · Joined: 03 Jun 2003

Tried my best to understand your post, and I understand most of it. AND I enjoyed it, but i just can't put my finger on the prejudice. Where is the prejudice?

Barking Mad Lord Snapcase · Joined: 04 Nov 2003

ryleeys · Joined: 22 Dec 2003 Location: Columbia, MD

I think he's saying that it's prejudice for Koreans to assume that foreigners can't speak Korean.

I personally don't think so. I think it shows a great willingness to communicate and find a middle ground for the Korean to speak English. Now, if you request that they speak Korean (and you speak Korean significantly better than they speak English), yet they continue to speak in English, then there is a problem.

But I have heard from many people that are offended and assume Koreans are looking down on them by communicating in English. I personally think this is a very inappropriate view of the situation.

tomato · Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 4:20 am Post subject:

Hello, Hardy and Tiny!

As I see it, a Korean who speaks to me in English is assuming:

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that my knowledge of Korean is so bad that I could not understand them if they spoke to me in Korean.

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that I have so little interest in learning Korean that I would not appreciate the listening practice if they spoke to me in Korean.

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that I'm too stupid to learn Korean anyway, so why bother?

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that they speak English better than I speak Korean.

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that a Korean has a right to converse in English in my country but a foreigner has no right to converse in Korean in their country.

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that Koreans are therefore superior to English-speaking foreigners.

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that my effort in learning Korean is so unimportant that they could not take just a few seconds of their time to speak to me in Korean.

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that I must also be unimportant, since my effort in learning Korean is unimportant.

To make assumptions about a person on the basis of race, gender, nationality, age, or any other single trait is prejudice.
And a Korean who speaks to me in English is assuredly making assumptions.

Thank you for writing, and I hope that this clarifies my point.
If even my compatriots are not understanding my point, then perhaps some of the problem is at my end.

Real Reality · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Location: Seoul

How many Koreans assume a foreigner is an American or Russian?

Is it not prejudice? "All foreigners look alike."

HardyandTiny · Joined: 03 Jun 2003

You look like a Korean person?
Wait a second....
I need to understand what the heck is going on

where are you from? what do you look like? can you speak korean?

Real Reality · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Location: Seoul

view of prejudice?

Joerg Baruth said, "I couldn't understand at all some Koreans who treat foreigners from developed countries like Europe and the United States well, but despise and mistreat blacks, Southeast Asians and even their ethnic Korean brothers from China... It's gotten much better than it was seven years ago, but [Koreans] still need to treat foreign workers better in the future."
"About two years after we arrived in Korea, my children were begging us to go back to Germany every day. This was because the Korean children where treating them with contempt, throwing stones at their heads and spitting in their faces."
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200403/200403290020.html

But wait, his children are from a developed country -- Germany.
So, Koreans despise and mistreat equally.

ryleeys · Joined: 22 Dec 2003 Location: Columbia, MD

indytrucks · Joined: 09 Apr 2003 Location: The Shelf

tomato · Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 4:51 am Post subject:

Hello, Ryleeys!

Why do I have to know Korean better than the Korean knows English to deserve the privilege of conversing in Korean?

Even an infant enjoys more independence than that. When an infant takes a first step, that infant cannot walk easier than the parents can carry the infant. If the infant is not allowed to walk as long as the parents can more easily carry the infant, the infant will never learn to walk.

Likewise, if a foreigner is not allowed to practice Korean with anyone who has passed the TOEIC, that foreigner will never learn Korean--which is probably the reason that so few foreigners learn Korean.

If you are searching for a "middle ground," then I suggest that Korean speak slowly in short, grammatically simple sentences. If the foreigner does not understand, then the Korean could write down a few key words and the foreigner could look them up.

All the king's horses and all the king's men can't get some Koreans to speak Korean to me. No matter how many times I answer in Korean, they keep right on speaking English. If I really cuss them out, they just might apologize--in English.

tomato · Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 4:58 am Post subject:

Hello, Snapcase!

The way I see it, I am the one who is following the Golden Rule. Koreans go to English-speaking countries and practice English, so I don't see why we can't come to Korea and practice Korean. A Canadian on this forum says that he has tried speaking Korean to Koreans in Canada and they resented it.

I am asking nothing that I would not readily provide for a Korean in my own country. I would never go up to a Korean in my own country and speak Korean. I would speak to the Korean in Korean only if the Korean indicates that he or she does not understand English.

The maxim "innocent until proven guilty" holds true in any court of law. Why can't it also hold true on a Mugungwha train?

ryleeys · Joined: 22 Dec 2003 Location: Columbia, MD

I suppose I prefer to speak in whatever language is shared the most. So if their English is better than my Korean, I will speak in English unless otherwise discussed.

Frankly, for times when walking practice (i.e. speaking practice) is not the predominant goal, I do see alot of parents carrying children capable of walking, purely for efficiency.

There is a time to practice walking and a time to practice speaking... but if that isn't the stated goal, then I believe ease of travel and ease of communication take precedence.

My only suggestion is, before being offended at being spoken to in English, request that they speak in Korean. If they refuse, not out of inability to communicate, but out of disrespect, then by all means, go ape sh*t on their ass.

tomato · Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:06 am Post subject:

Hello, Indytrucks!

There was a concert violinist who resented being asked to play solos at social occasions. When he showed up at a dinner party, the hostess asked him, "Where's your violin?" He took a deep bow and said, "My violin sends its regrets. It does not dine."

I enjoy teaching English, but since I am paid for only 30 hours a week, I think I should teach English for only 30 hours a week. Even 30 hours a week is a big chunk of time which could otherwise be spent practicing Korean. If we were all Mormon missionaries, we would all be proficient in Korean within 2 years.

Besides, what's so wonderful about an opportunity to speak English to a foreigner? There are millions of English students in Korea. Why do they refuse to converse in English with each other?

ryleeys · Joined: 22 Dec 2003 Location: Columbia, MD

I generally do not feel that my time outside of school is worth a set rate... especially if I enjoy the company of a friend and they enjoy my company. Over beers, the language doesn't matter as long as we're all smiling and having a good time.

And for random interactions with Koreans (perhaps speaking with a clerk while purchasing something), the time is too short to justify the complexities of negotiating what language to speak in.