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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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 Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:49 am Post subject: Turkey to soften laws against Kurds |
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The article is here
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/30/world/asia/30kurds.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&th&emc=th
This is the law that is being changed.
"Hundreds of Kurdish children were imprisoned under a tough antiterrorism law, introduced in 2006, that equated protest activities like attending an illegal rally with being a member or supporter of a terrorist group, according to Berivan�s lawyer, Reyhan Yalcindag, a leading human rights activist."
Many of these kids had long prison sentences just for attending protests. One of the reasons that this is happening is due to the Kurds anger at Turkey for the whole flotilla incident, as well as more light being shined on it due to the international attention. I think that ironically the flotilla might have more of an effect on human rights in Turkey than Israel. I'm glad to see this. |
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:08 am Post subject: |
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So, Batman is Kurdish... Who knew? 
On a more serious note, unless I am mistaken, the Kurds have wanted their own nation going all the way back to the aftermath of World War I. In a way, its a bit of a double standard that Jewish people were allowed to have their own nation and yet no one has taken an interest in the Kurdish cause. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:13 am Post subject: Re: Turkey to soften laws against Kurds |
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| Leon wrote: |
| One of the reasons that this is happening is due to the Kurds anger at Turkey for the whole flotilla incident, as well as more light being shined on it due to the international attention. I think that ironically the flotilla might have more of an effect on human rights in Turkey than Israel. I'm glad to see this. |
Why are the Kurds angry at Turkey because Israel attacked their flotilla? |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:48 am Post subject: Re: Turkey to soften laws against Kurds |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| One of the reasons that this is happening is due to the Kurds anger at Turkey for the whole flotilla incident, as well as more light being shined on it due to the international attention. I think that ironically the flotilla might have more of an effect on human rights in Turkey than Israel. I'm glad to see this. |
Why are the Kurds angry at Turkey because Israel attacked their flotilla? |
They are angry about the attention paid to Palestinians when they are basically in the same situation. The don't like the human rights posturing of the Turkish government over the issue. |
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:49 am Post subject: Re: Turkey to soften laws against Kurds |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| One of the reasons that this is happening is due to the Kurds anger at Turkey for the whole flotilla incident, as well as more light being shined on it due to the international attention. I think that ironically the flotilla might have more of an effect on human rights in Turkey than Israel. I'm glad to see this. |
Why are the Kurds angry at Turkey because Israel attacked their flotilla? |
It is a matter of resentment of the attention that this incident is receiving. After all, the Kurds are also being oppressed. From their point of view, the Turkish government needs to learn to be more even handed at home before trying to address injustices abroad. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: Turkey to soften laws against Kurds |
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| Leon wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| One of the reasons that this is happening is due to the Kurds anger at Turkey for the whole flotilla incident, as well as more light being shined on it due to the international attention. I think that ironically the flotilla might have more of an effect on human rights in Turkey than Israel. I'm glad to see this. |
Why are the Kurds angry at Turkey because Israel attacked their flotilla? |
They are angry about the attention paid to Palestinians when they are basically in the same situation. The don't like the human rights posturing of the Turkish government over the issue. |
The Kurds are not in basically the same position as the Palestinians.
It's a rather different situation. Yes, the PKK is fighting for independence,
the vast majority of Kurds in Turkey are citizens. The Palestinians are not.
The Kurds have some support from the ruling party, AKP. The Arab-Israelis do not have and never have. You can build as a Kurd anywhere in Turkey and not worry that you can't get a permit because you are Kurdish. However, Kurds have long been denied their cultural rights. The idea was forcing Kurds to try to be a mirror copy of the Turks, and that doesn't work.
Thousands of Kurds have died in the fighting and many have been tortured and killed. Turks have also been killed. Turkey's past abuses of the Kurds have been highlighted to some extent by the flotilla, but
what you are referring to was discussed before the flotilla incident.
I read the Turkish press, and I read of this long before the flotilla incident. The AKP is trying to accomodate the Kurds, and this is not new. However, it has to proceed gingerly. Turkey has been working on various issues dealing with the Kurds for some years.
Personally, I think Turkey is moving forward, and Israel is moving backwards as a country. I don't deny many Kurds have been abused and killed, and that's appalling. I don't think the situation is the same between the Kurds and Palestinians. None of Turkey is viewed as occupied territory, but the Kurds are repressed in that sense there is a comparison. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:19 pm Post subject: Re: Turkey to soften laws against Kurds |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| One of the reasons that this is happening is due to the Kurds anger at Turkey for the whole flotilla incident, as well as more light being shined on it due to the international attention. I think that ironically the flotilla might have more of an effect on human rights in Turkey than Israel. I'm glad to see this. |
Why are the Kurds angry at Turkey because Israel attacked their flotilla? |
They are angry about the attention paid to Palestinians when they are basically in the same situation. The don't like the human rights posturing of the Turkish government over the issue. |
The Kurds are not in basically the same position as the Palestinians.
It's a rather different situation. Yes, the PKK is fighting for independence,
the vast majority of Kurds in Turkey are citizens. The Palestinians are not.
The Kurds have some support from the ruling party, AKP. The Arab-Israelis do not have and never have. You can build as a Kurd anywhere in Turkey and not worry that you can't get a permit because you are Kurdish. However, Kurds have long been denied their cultural rights. The idea was forcing Kurds to try to be a mirror copy of the Turks, and that doesn't work.
Thousands of Kurds have died in the fighting and many have been tortured and killed. Turks have also been killed. Turkey's past abuses of the Kurds have been highlighted to some extent by the flotilla, but
what you are referring to was discussed before the flotilla incident.
I read the Turkish press, and I read of this long before the flotilla incident. The AKP is trying to accomodate the Kurds, and this is not new. However, it has to proceed gingerly. Turkey has been working on various issues dealing with the Kurds for some years.
Personally, I think Turkey is moving forward, and Israel is moving backwards as a country. I don't deny many Kurds have been abused and killed, and that's appalling. I don't think the situation is the same between the Kurds and Palestinians. None of Turkey is viewed as occupied territory, but the Kurds are repressed in that sense there is a comparison. |
I said basically, as in the basics are the same. A minority group is treated like second class citizens and the minority group wants their own state. The situation and the dealing with the Kurds has been going on, but the flotilla incident will help speed the process up. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:47 pm Post subject: Re: Turkey to soften laws against Kurds |
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| Quote: |
| I said basically, as in the basics are the same. A minority group is treated like second class citizens and the minority group wants their own state. The situation and the dealing with the Kurds has been going on, but the flotilla incident will help speed the process up. |
[/quote]
Tu as raison d'une facon. I think it's possible as you said that the flotilla incident may help speed up the process because people pointed out the fact that the Kurds still have inadequate rights. I was only adding that for the past few months the Turkish government has been trying to promote Kurdish rights while dealing with the fears of the Turks who are nationalists and fear giving Kurds their rights. Yes, I agree, that the Kurds are second class Turkish citizens in a sense as are the Alevis, or so they say. Recently, Turkey re-opened an Armenian church, and they are working on opening an old Greek school. Hopefully, Turkey will become a place that's hospitable for Greeks seeking employment to move and work. I read of a few doing that and learning Turkish.
I feel for the Kurds and their lack of rights. I am more hopeful for them than Arab-Israelis, to tell the truth, but the death toll for Kurds over the years has been rather high. I say this without ignoring the death of innocent Turks. The war must end. I sincerely hope for more cultural rapprochement in Turkey in a way that helps stabilize things in the East and promotes peace and development. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: Turkey to soften laws against Kurds |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| I am more hopeful for them than Arab-Israelis, to tell the truth, but the death toll for Kurds over the years has been rather high. I say this without ignoring the death of innocent Turks. The war must end. I sincerely hope for more cultural rapprochement in Turkey in a way that helps stabilize things in the East and promotes peace and development. |
Really? I think that in the short term their human rights condition will improve more than the Palestine's, but Palestine is much more likely to become an independent state eventually. One main reason for this is that Kurdistan is in Iraq, Iran, and Turkey so that all three countries have a vested interest in making sure that it doesn't happen. |
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NovaKart
Joined: 18 Nov 2009
Location: Iraq
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 5:16 am Post subject: |
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Just based on people I know, most Kurds are anti-Israel and were also upset about the flotilla incident. I haven't polled every Kurd I know and I wasn't in Turkey at the time this happened (thank God, Turkey is enough of a flag waving Ataturk patriot-fest without an international incident) but just based on Kurdish people I've talked to this is what I've heard.
Turkey takes a step forward and a step back all the time. Recently there's a heightened alert about the PKK. It's commonly believed that the USA supports them which is tiresome. Also anecdotally, the Kurds I know don't like the AKP but then almost every Turk I know doesn't like them either. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:16 am Post subject: Re: Turkey to soften laws against Kurds |
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| Leon wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
| I am more hopeful for them than Arab-Israelis, to tell the truth, but the death toll for Kurds over the years has been rather high. I say this without ignoring the death of innocent Turks. The war must end. I sincerely hope for more cultural rapprochement in Turkey in a way that helps stabilize things in the East and promotes peace and development. |
Really? I think that in the short term their human rights condition will improve more than the Palestine's, but Palestine is much more likely to become an independent state eventually. One main reason for this is that Kurdistan is in Iraq, Iran, and Turkey so that all three countries have a vested interest in making sure that it doesn't happen. |
I was referring to Arab-Israelis in this case. Wtih Palestinians who are not citizens the situation is horrendous. It's horrible. Israeli soldiers
confiscate farmland and bulldoze homes without warning and come up with reasons why it is okay to steal the land. That's another story. I was talking about the Arab-Israelis. The situation for Arab-Israelis doesn't seem to be getting better culturally for them, but, in Turkey, the Turkish government to its credit has been working for the last 5 years or so or more on relations with the Greek, Alevi, and Kurdish minorities. It's not a new thing.
Palestine is supposed to become independent based on international law and the fact that the West Bank is supposed to be occupied territory. The Kurdish areas are not viewed as occupied lands.
They may be viewed as such by Kurds, but not by the international community and what the Kurds view as their land in some cases was Armenian and the Armenians say Kurds and Turks ethnic cleansed them from part of their homeland. Technically, part of nothern Iraq belonged to the Assyrian Christians. The key is not necessarily creating an independent Kurdish homeland but giving them equal rights in Turkey.
The Turks will not accept that part of their state break off.
When I said development in the East, I was speaking about Turkey's eastern part. The eastern part of Turkey needs to develop with the help of Turkish and European Union development aid and the fight with the PKK needs to end. The Kurds need their cultural rights. Turkey will resist any form of autonomy demanded. If the Kurds settle for cultural rights, the right to teach their language alongside Turkish, having their radio and TV stations, they would be fine. In Iraq, the Kurds have autonomy.
The situation for Kurds in both Iraq and Turkey, in some ways, is much better than it is in Iran. I would rather be a Kurd in Iraq or Turkey than in Iran. |
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