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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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 Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:05 am Post subject: Grammar question... |
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Making wishes about the present...
I marked this as fine:
I wish I would have energy.
I wish I would have enough time.
It's not something I would use, personally, but it seems fine to me.
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I would say: I wish I had (more) energy.
I wish I had enough time.
_____________________________________________________
What about giving opinions using that clauses and using mental activity verbs? Would realize and know count? I marked them as correct because you could say that knowing could be an opinion. It seems tricky.
Thank you... |
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eat_yeot
Joined: 11 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:43 am Post subject: Re: Grammar question... |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
Making wishes about the present...
I marked this as fine:
I wish I would have energy.
I wish I would have enough time.
It's not something I would use, personally, but it seems fine to me. |
Looking at http://corpus2.byu.edu/coca/ the structure "I wish I would" is almost always followed by "have + past participle" and refers to past wishes.
One of the exceptions is this:
Levin reportedly told a grand jury that just weeks before Carol's slaying, Neulander had told him, " I wish I would come home one day and find my wife dead on the floor, " then asked if Levin could arrange to have her killed.
Another:
In the evening, while the boys zoom toy trucks up and down the tiled hall, the girls gather on the floor of their room for " story time. " Not the usual stories, but ones about their fears and dreams. Gathering around Veronica Greenhow, one of the workers, one by one they express secret longings. " I wish I would be back with my mother and we would have 1,000 bedrooms in a house,' says Larshiya.
So out of 425 millions words, it's used twice. Once by a murderer, and the other time by a child. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Making wishes about the present...
I marked this as fine:
I wish I would have energy.
I wish I would have enough time.
It's not something I would use, personally, but it seems fine to me.
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I wouldn't have marked them as fine.
I'd have said
Wish + simple past = desire to change a current situation
Wish + would = complaining about a present situation or a habit
e.g. I wish you'd clean the bath out after you use it (habit)
or I wish the bus would come, we've been waiting for ages (present situation)
Complaining about yourself like in the examples you gave doesn't seem right. However, this is an area where native speakers are constantly changing the rules you find in grammar books. I frequently hear native speakers say things like 'I wish I didn't get drunk last night' instead of, I wish I hadn't got drunk.'
The examples given by eat yeot seem wrong to me too
" I wish I would come home one day" is a desire about the future so would normally be expressed with 'hope' as in
I hope I come home one day and find my wife dead"
Or perhaps wish + could as in
I wish I could come home one day and find my wife dead"
The second example sounds ungrammatical and should probably read
I wish I was back with my mother and we had 1,000 bedrooms in a house,' says Larshiya. |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:55 am Post subject: Re: Grammar question... |
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| eat_yeot wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
Making wishes about the present...
I marked this as fine:
I wish I would have energy.
I wish I would have enough time.
It's not something I would use, personally, but it seems fine to me. |
Looking at http://corpus2.byu.edu/coca/ the structure "I wish I would" is almost always followed by "have + past participle" and refers to past wishes.
One of the exceptions is this:
Levin reportedly told a grand jury that just weeks before Carol's slaying, Neulander had told him, " I wish I would come home one day and find my wife dead on the floor, " then asked if Levin could arrange to have her killed.
Another:
In the evening, while the boys zoom toy trucks up and down the tiled hall, the girls gather on the floor of their room for " story time. " Not the usual stories, but ones about their fears and dreams. Gathering around Veronica Greenhow, one of the workers, one by one they express secret longings. " I wish I would be back with my mother and we would have 1,000 bedrooms in a house,' says Larshiya.
So out of 425 millions words, it's used twice. Once by a murderer, and the other time by a child. |
Both of your examples express desire for the future not the present.
You did neither your students nor yourself any favors marking those as correct.
Sign of the times I suppose...
Last edited by T-J on Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:02 am; edited 1 time in total |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:59 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| However, this is an area where native speakers are constantly changing the rules you find in grammar books. I frequently hear native speakers say things like 'I wish I didn't get drunk last night' instead of, I wish I hadn't got drunk.' |
I hear the same thing...except the grammar change on the other side of the pond would be:
I wish I hadn't gotten drunk.
And usually goes with 'so'
I wish I hadn't gotten so drunk last night.
While the grammars may change, the habits remain the same.  |
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nathanrutledge
Joined: 01 May 2008
Location: Marakesh
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:00 am Post subject: |
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The thing that makes it sound strange is people don't generally use that structure reflexively. Replace the second I with you -
I wish you would have energy.
I wish you would have enough time.
That works, no problem. In fact, you can replace it with any of the pronouns - you/he,she,it/we/they, and it works fine. Just because it's uncommon doesn't make it wrong, you prescriptivist thugs... |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| nathanrutledge wrote: |
The thing that makes it sound strange is people don't generally use that structure reflexively. Replace the second I with you -
I wish you would have energy.
I wish you would have enough time.
That works, no problem. In fact, you can replace it with any of the pronouns - you/he,she,it/we/they, and it works fine. Just because it's uncommon doesn't make it wrong, you prescriptivist thugs... |
Again all expressing hopes for the future not the present, which is what the OP stated as the desired communication. Fail.
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:08 am Post subject: |
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The student had the following:
Your house is too small. (Explain your wishes with real conditionals).
I wish I would have a big house.
______________________________________________________
I think it should be either:
A)I wish I had a big (or bigger) house.
B)I wish I would have had a big house.
With B, you have examples like:
I wish I would have known better.
I wish I would have shot the ball better.
I wish I would have lived a better life.
I wish I would have made better friends.
Both would sound grammatically correct. What he wrote wouldn't work in my opinion. |
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nathanrutledge
Joined: 01 May 2008
Location: Marakesh
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:10 am Post subject: |
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| T-J wrote: |
| nathanrutledge wrote: |
The thing that makes it sound strange is people don't generally use that structure reflexively. Replace the second I with you -
I wish you would have energy.
I wish you would have enough time.
That works, no problem. In fact, you can replace it with any of the pronouns - you/he,she,it/we/they, and it works fine. Just because it's uncommon doesn't make it wrong, you prescriptivist thugs... |
Again all expressing hopes for the future not the present, which is what the OP stated as the desired communication. Fail.
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Why?
I wish I would have energy (to punch TJ in the face right now).
We don't have an object clause that defines the time. So they could work for present tense, right? |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:11 am Post subject: |
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| nathanrutledge wrote: |
The thing that makes it sound strange is people don't generally use that structure reflexively. Replace the second I with you -
I wish you would have energy.
I wish you would have enough time.
That works, no problem. In fact, you can replace it with any of the pronouns - you/he,she,it/we/they, and it works fine. Just because it's uncommon doesn't make it wrong, you prescriptivist thugs... |
... some problems.
The thugs will be back. |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| nathanrutledge wrote: |
| T-J wrote: |
| nathanrutledge wrote: |
The thing that makes it sound strange is people don't generally use that structure reflexively. Replace the second I with you -
I wish you would have energy.
I wish you would have enough time.
That works, no problem. In fact, you can replace it with any of the pronouns - you/he,she,it/we/they, and it works fine. Just because it's uncommon doesn't make it wrong, you prescriptivist thugs... |
Again all expressing hopes for the future not the present, which is what the OP stated as the desired communication. Fail.
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Why?
I wish I would have energy (to punch TJ in the face right now).
We don't have an object clause that defines the time. So they could work for present tense, right? |
Nope.
"I wish I had the energy to punch myself in the face."
Right now I wish I hadn't drunk so much.
OP is wrong though.
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:29 am Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| nathanrutledge wrote: |
The thing that makes it sound strange is people don't generally use that structure reflexively. Replace the second I with you -
I wish you would have energy.
I wish you would have enough time.
That works, no problem. In fact, you can replace it with any of the pronouns - you/he,she,it/we/they, and it works fine. Just because it's uncommon doesn't make it wrong, you prescriptivist thugs... |
... some problems.
The thugs will be back. |
But, if it's unreal conditional, doesn't it have to have to have a past participle? That's my understanding just as you would expect to see:
I wish you could have seen the look on his face when Cosmic Hum threw an asteroid at him.
I am going to order this book by Keith Folse: "Keys to Teaching Grammar". I have the Grammar Bible, but I don't think it's adequate when it comes to examples and problem areas. |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| nathanrutledge wrote: |
The thing that makes it sound strange is people don't generally use that structure reflexively. Replace the second I with you -
I wish you would have energy.
I wish you would have enough time.
That works, no problem. In fact, you can replace it with any of the pronouns - you/he,she,it/we/they, and it works fine. Just because it's uncommon doesn't make it wrong, you prescriptivist thugs... |
... some problems.
The thugs will be back. |
But, if it's unreal conditional, doesn't it have to have to have a past participle? That's my understanding just as you would expect to see:
I wish you could have seen the look on his face when Cosmic Hum threw an asteroid at him.
I am going to order this book by Keith Folse: "Keys to Teaching Grammar". I have the Grammar Bible, but I don't think it's adequate when it comes to examples and problem areas. |
As I said, I'm three sheets right now but it appears you're confusing have as a verb and a helping verb in an already confusing situation.
In your original example have is the verb. In your last example it isn't. Cosmic Hum is much better at this when I'm sober, let alone now...
Bottom line is that what you marked as correct was not. I wish it wasn't the case but it is.
If it's a learning experience then it's not wasted...
We're all learning.
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| T-J wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| nathanrutledge wrote: |
The thing that makes it sound strange is people don't generally use that structure reflexively. Replace the second I with you -
I wish you would have energy.
I wish you would have enough time.
That works, no problem. In fact, you can replace it with any of the pronouns - you/he,she,it/we/they, and it works fine. Just because it's uncommon doesn't make it wrong, you prescriptivist thugs... |
... some problems.
The thugs will be back. |
But, if it's unreal conditional, doesn't it have to have to have a past participle? That's my understanding just as you would expect to see:
I wish you could have seen the look on his face when Cosmic Hum threw an asteroid at him.
I am going to order this book by Keith Folse: "Keys to Teaching Grammar". I have the Grammar Bible, but I don't think it's adequate when it comes to examples and problem areas. |
As I said, I'm three sheets right now but it appears you're confusing have as a verb and a helping verb in an already confusing situation.
In your original example have is the verb. In your last example it isn't. Cosmic Hum is much better at this when I'm sober, let alone now...
Bottom line is that what you marked as correct was not. I wish it wasn't the case but it is.
If it's a learning experience then it's not wasted...
We're all learning.
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In some aspects of grammar, I'll admit, I am pretty good, but, in some areas, I'm not so great. I don't think about grammar. I just speak and speak correctly 99% of the time. Thus, I don't think about what is acceptable, and what is not acceptable. I have a master's degree, and I did read a lot about grammar. I am a great speaking teacher. I am rapidly getting better at explaining grammar.
I think I would have energy is wrong as you said, and he would have had to have written: "I wish I would have had more energy" for it to be correct or to write the following: I wish I had more energy.
Thank you, guys; I really appreciate it. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:17 am Post subject: |
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Another good thread Adventurer.
All's well that ends well.
T.J. - You are a scholar and a drunken gentlemen. |
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