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paperbag princess



Joined: 07 Mar 2004
Location: veggie hell

PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:21 pm    Post subject: deleted Reply with quote

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Last edited by paperbag princess on Sat Feb 11, 2006 9:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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aussie col



Joined: 31 Jan 2004

PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate to say this but you shouldn't do anything.

First of all it won't do any good. Domestic violence is a difficult issue, especially when you are just the waygook teacher. This is something that can only be dealt with by professionals if there are any in Korea who deal with domestic violence.

The main problem is that society accepts this and does nothing to change it. It isn��t up to you (or possible) to change the way Korean society deals with this issue. It will take time and has to be initiated by Korean society itself. Anything else will just be interference by outsiders.

You��re not in Canada any more. There are many joys to experiencing another culture but also many things that you may dislike about it. This is one of the dislikes and you have to realise that you are an outsider and you came here to learn about a different culture and not try to change.

I hate the answer I just gave you and it saddens me to write this. But this is how I feel.

Maybe you agree with the above, maybe you don��t. In the end you have to go with your heart. I would like to believe that if I was in this situation that I would say screw Korean society and give them a piece of my mind.

Just be ready for the consequences�� they will be hard.
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Homer
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to agree with aussie col here paperbag princess.

However, if it helps, I had one boy who came in every second day with bruises. I got to thinking the same thing you did and I asked around getting a similar response.

Then I talked to my wife and decided to ask into it further. Not much came of this until one weekend, we were eating at a small food stall and we saw this same boy playing with his friends, the game: wresling.

The wreslting took place in a concrete arena...i.e. the side street and there boys were going full on...hence the bruises!

I am not saying that no one gets abused here, far from it, just relaying an experience of mine.

Also to consider, my wife's brother has 3 kids, not one of them has ever been touched.
We see them everyday.

This is a personal experience but its just meant to show that there are many sides here.
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tokki



Joined: 26 Jul 2003

PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kids are kids. Kids do things like wrestling, horsing around,jumping from high places. They get tons of bruises and most of the time its not from abuse.
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Ilsanman



Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 6:19 am    Post subject: yes Reply with quote

One day it will be addressed. Not yet, and not by me.

Let it be.

I think it's wrong, but I am powerless to stop that. When I accepted that, it bothered me a lot less.
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canukteacher



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul, Korea

PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is NO child abuse in this country. There is also NO:

--prostitution
--no spousal abuse
--no gays
--no unwed mothers

Who can add to the list?
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desultude



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf

PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm afraid that in Korea, parents are basically allowed to do what they wish with "their" children. The people that post on this forum arguing that it should be okay to hit children, and that it is impossible to teach in the States because they aren't allowed to hit children, haven't seen the other side of the coin.

I had a student at camp last summer who reported being hit by his mother with a baseball bat. We tried to do what we could , but the boy was an emotional disaster. Everyone wanted to help him, but there is really nothing to be done. The way we were treated in the States, in my family, when I was a child, was somewhat comparable. But in those days it was private family business, like it is here today. Thank god that people are starting to realize that beating children is not a private affair. It will take a little longer to catch on here, but it will. And there will be those who say, "oh, we have to beat them or they will be out of control"- try seeing your own mother out of control with a baseball bat, or a teacher out of control with his fists.
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

desultude wrote:
I'm afraid that in Korea, parents are basically allowed to do what they wish with "their" children. The people that post on this forum arguing that it should be okay to hit children, and that it is impossible to teach in the States because they aren't allowed to hit children, haven't seen the other side of the coin.

I had a student at camp last summer who reported being hit by his mother with a baseball bat. We tried to do what we could , but the boy was an emotional disaster. Everyone wanted to help him, but there is really nothing to be done. The way we were treated in the States, in my family, when I was a child, was somewhat comparable. But in those days it was private family business, like it is here today. Thank god that people are starting to realize that beating children is not a private affair. It will take a little longer to catch on here, but it will. And there will be those who say, "oh, we have to beat them or they will be out of control"- try seeing your own mother out of control with a baseball bat, or a teacher out of control with his fists.


There is a difference between discipline and "being out of control" Yes abuse happens. But I doubt that very few teachers would be coming here, if Korean children were not disciplined. Some people think the kids are monsters here, they would be ten times worse if there was no discipline. The worse we have to face here is a occassional "Puck you!" Try facing down a knife back home and then come and talk to me about discipline.

And as far as discipline goes, there are other ways of installing it than hitting. I teach elementary kids. Do I touch them? No. I make them stand outside for about five minutes if they transgress. Then I give the class some work to do, go outside, close the door and explain the rules of my classroom again to the offender. Once is generally all it takes.
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Homer
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Canuckteacher,

Quote:
There is NO child abuse in this country. There is also NO:

--prostitution
--no spousal abuse
--no gays
--no unwed mothers

Who can add to the list?


No one would need to add to this list. Laughing

Why even make it when no one on here was saying that there is no child abuse.
The discussion centered on the fact that sometimes its not abuse, its just kids being kids. Of course there is child abuse here. There is child abuse in every country on the planet. Exclamation
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desultude



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf

PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
TheUrbanMyth

Quote:
desultude wrote:
I'm afraid that in Korea, parents are basically allowed to do what they wish with "their" children. The people that post on this forum arguing that it should be okay to hit children, and that it is impossible to teach in the States because they aren't allowed to hit children, haven't seen the other side of the coin.

I had a student at camp last summer who reported being hit by his mother with a baseball bat. We tried to do what we could , but the boy was an emotional disaster. Everyone wanted to help him, but there is really nothing to be done. The way we were treated in the States, in my family, when I was a child, was somewhat comparable. But in those days it was private family business, like it is here today. Thank god that people are starting to realize that beating children is not a private affair. It will take a little longer to catch on here, but it will. And there will be those who say, "oh, we have to beat them or they will be out of control"- try seeing your own mother out of control with a baseball bat, or a teacher out of control with his fists.


There is a difference between discipline and "being out of control" Yes abuse happens. But I doubt that very few teachers would be coming here, if Korean children were not disciplined. Some people think the kids are monsters here, they would be ten times worse if there was no discipline. The worse we have to face here is a occassional "Puck you!" Try facing down a knife back home and then come and talk to me about discipline.

And as far as discipline goes, there are other ways of installing it than hitting. I teach elementary kids. Do I touch them? No. I make them stand outside for about five minutes if they transgress. Then I give the class some work to do, go outside, close the door and explain the rules of my classroom again to the offender. Once is generally all it takes.


I actually like the children here, and when I have them in camp, I surely never resort to corporal punishment. I don't think they are monsters. And I don't think the majority of parents or teachers abuse the children, but when it happens, it is dealt with differently than in the States. My little boy student, who got the baseball bat from his mother at times, was really sweet but very depressed, to the point of being suicidal. Why was he hit with a bat? He didn't ace an exam!

This is just sad. I am not here to impose my values on Korea, but I have a hard time with things like this.

By the way, I think the problem with children in the States is not lack of corporal punishment. Two parents work, the classes are overcrowded, the teachers are underpaid and underappreciated. The whole situation is a mess.
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The Great Wall of Whiner



Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Middle Land

PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

China is by far worse than Korea. Just ask Rhonda Place on the China board.

Many of my students are whipped because they do poorly on a test.

When I moved into my apartment, there was a lock on the washroom door, on the outside. When I asked what is it for, the answer was given to me as if it was a silly question. "Lock there son in there until he finishes his homework."

I also have students getting on their hands and knees begging for me to either change their test score, not record the test score, or not tell the Chinese teacher because he will "tell my father".

I've seen cigarette burns on arms, bruises on legs, and kids with black eyes, big bumps on there heads, and cut lips.

I am very reluctant to fail any of my kids because of this....

Damn I miss Korea..
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paperbag princess



Joined: 07 Mar 2004
Location: veggie hell

PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 12:38 am    Post subject: ... Reply with quote

it's such a sad state of affairs... thanks for the advice, i appreciate it very much!
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