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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Peter258
Joined: 18 Dec 2009
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Jacknife
Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Location: Seoul, of course.
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 Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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Looks interesting, but I'm too busy to read that. Also remember desk
warming is a national pastime in Korea. |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| A lot of Koreans would take pride in that statistic, but then fail to consider the possible correlation to high suicide rates, health problems and shortened interaction time with spouses and children. |
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carleverson
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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Korea:
1. Highest # of hours worked
2. Lowest levels of efficiency |
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ThingsComeAround
Joined: 07 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah they should have had an efficiency scale next to those hours worked 
People here think just being at work equals being productive  |
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Smee
Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Location: Jeollanam-do
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, Koreans work long but not necessarily hard.
However "efficiency" is a loaded word and an ethnocentric one. Our home countries rank higher in "efficiency," but also rank higher in unemployment and various social ills.
Explored in this post
http://briandeutsch.blogspot.com/2008/05/forbes-ranks-south-korea-as-hardest.html
and in Japan in the book Confucius Lives Next Door.
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A more significant explanation for the low rate of unemployment, even in recession, is that the Japanese have made a national calculation of comparative costs. They have decided that the social costs associated with large-scale unemployment would be greater than the costs required to keep people at work. "There are always costs involved in unemployment," the economist Takeuchi Hiroshi, the chief forecaster for the Long-Term Credit Bank of Japan, explained to me once. "The only question is who bears the expense. In your country, it's usually the worker first, and then the government, and then the society as a whole because you have all those people on the street without a job. In Japan, the company is expected to bear the costs, because that's better for society as a whole."
This policy explains why Japan, despite its emergence as a global financial and industrial power, always rates fairly low on global comparisons of productivity. My economics text defines "productivity" as "the relative efficiency of economic activity---that is, the amount of products or services produced compared to the amount of goods and labor used to produce it." This means that a company or country that turns out a lot of product with few people working on any given job than you would see in another country. In purely industrial terms, low productivity is a Bad Thing; it increases direct costs. But for Japan, low productivity is the secret weapon. It's a key reason why the socieity remains civil, stable, and safe. Other countries have to spend far more money, time, and energy combating crime, drugs, and family decay than Japan spends. So economists may find, when measuring the direct costs of producing a new car, case of beer, microchip, or whatever, that Japan has low productivity. But Japan has also reduced the indirect costs that stem from the rigors of high-productivity societies. |
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BoholDiver
Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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+1
| cj1976 wrote: |
| A lot of Koreans would take pride in that statistic, but then fail to consider the possible correlation to high suicide rates, health problems and shortened interaction time with spouses and children. |
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Louis VI
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
Location: In my Kingdom
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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Korea is #1 in workplace fatalities (industrial deaths) in the OECD with 21 deaths per 100,000 per year, more than TWICE the rate of the second most dangerous workplaces, Mexico. The lack of safety standards enforced in manufacturing is cited as a reason and really, is anyone surprised?
http://hanopolis.com/?articleNo=13422&story/Korea-suffers-highest-rate-of-industrial-deaths-among-OECD
If you take the fact that Koreans have the highest rate of industrial deaths, traffic fatalities and suicides one wouldn't be remiss to conclude that the value of safety and/or life isn't so high around here; and any time a discussion of Korea's low birthrate comes up, the solution needed in preventing the nation from getting smaller isn't the having of more babies but the safety and preservation of the lives of existing Koreans! |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Smee wrote: |
Yes, Koreans work long but not necessarily hard.
However "efficiency" is a loaded word and an ethnocentric one. Our home countries rank higher in "efficiency," but also rank higher in unemployment and various social ills.
Explored in this post
http://briandeutsch.blogspot.com/2008/05/forbes-ranks-south-korea-as-hardest.html
and in Japan in the book Confucius Lives Next Door.
| Quote: |
A more significant explanation for the low rate of unemployment, even in recession, is that the Japanese have made a national calculation of comparative costs. They have decided that the social costs associated with large-scale unemployment would be greater than the costs required to keep people at work. "There are always costs involved in unemployment," the economist Takeuchi Hiroshi, the chief forecaster for the Long-Term Credit Bank of Japan, explained to me once. "The only question is who bears the expense. In your country, it's usually the worker first, and then the government, and then the society as a whole because you have all those people on the street without a job. In Japan, the company is expected to bear the costs, because that's better for society as a whole."
This policy explains why Japan, despite its emergence as a global financial and industrial power, always rates fairly low on global comparisons of productivity. My economics text defines "productivity" as "the relative efficiency of economic activity---that is, the amount of products or services produced compared to the amount of goods and labor used to produce it." This means that a company or country that turns out a lot of product with few people working on any given job than you would see in another country. In purely industrial terms, low productivity is a Bad Thing; it increases direct costs. But for Japan, low productivity is the secret weapon. It's a key reason why the socieity remains civil, stable, and safe. Other countries have to spend far more money, time, and energy combating crime, drugs, and family decay than Japan spends. So economists may find, when measuring the direct costs of producing a new car, case of beer, microchip, or whatever, that Japan has low productivity. But Japan has also reduced the indirect costs that stem from the rigors of high-productivity societies. |
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I always admired Japan's way of doing things in the 80's where everyone had a job and it was for life. It was like a social contract between the government, society and private industry. Unfortunately it seems they started to follow parts of America's model in the 90's and have little to show for it in the last 20 years. All the bums in the subway stations would have been unimaginable for a 30 year period between 1960 to the 90's. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| Smee wrote: |
Yes, Koreans work long but not necessarily hard.
However "efficiency" is a loaded word and an ethnocentric one. Our home countries rank higher in "efficiency," but also rank higher in unemployment and various social ills.
Explored in this post
http://briandeutsch.blogspot.com/2008/05/forbes-ranks-south-korea-as-hardest.html
and in Japan in the book Confucius Lives Next Door.
| Quote: |
A more significant explanation for the low rate of unemployment, even in recession, is that the Japanese have made a national calculation of comparative costs. They have decided that the social costs associated with large-scale unemployment would be greater than the costs required to keep people at work. "There are always costs involved in unemployment," the economist Takeuchi Hiroshi, the chief forecaster for the Long-Term Credit Bank of Japan, explained to me once. "The only question is who bears the expense. In your country, it's usually the worker first, and then the government, and then the society as a whole because you have all those people on the street without a job. In Japan, the company is expected to bear the costs, because that's better for society as a whole."
This policy explains why Japan, despite its emergence as a global financial and industrial power, always rates fairly low on global comparisons of productivity. My economics text defines "productivity" as "the relative efficiency of economic activity---that is, the amount of products or services produced compared to the amount of goods and labor used to produce it." This means that a company or country that turns out a lot of product with few people working on any given job than you would see in another country. In purely industrial terms, low productivity is a Bad Thing; it increases direct costs. But for Japan, low productivity is the secret weapon. It's a key reason why the socieity remains civil, stable, and safe. Other countries have to spend far more money, time, and energy combating crime, drugs, and family decay than Japan spends. So economists may find, when measuring the direct costs of producing a new car, case of beer, microchip, or whatever, that Japan has low productivity. But Japan has also reduced the indirect costs that stem from the rigors of high-productivity societies. |
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I always admired Japan's way of doing things in the 80's where everyone had a job and it was for life. It was like a social contract between the government, society and private industry. Unfortunately it seems they started to follow parts of America's model in the 90's and have little to show for it in the last 20 years. All the bums in the subway stations would have been unimaginable for a 30 year period between 1960 to the 90's. |
Maybe because it was unsustainable with an aging population.... |
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mc_jc
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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The one thing that is not mentioned in the statistics is how much work is actually done at a Korean company.
As some posters already said- although they might 'work' longer, but efficiency is decreased. One thing that is amazing is that in some Korean companies, there are probably 5 or 6 people doing the job a single person can do. Then they are at work by 7am only to do 2-3 hours of actually work during the day and then sit around for the rest of the day.
Basically, you have hundreds of drones who sit behind the desk playing computer games or surfing porn on the 'net.
The thing is- the only difference between a U.S. government job and a Korean office job is that the U.S. government workers' computers are monitored for porn, which is banned.
Heck!- the only time I did much work at Yongsan was right before a quarterly inspection, which was when I used to put the ax to the grind.
Here in Afghanistan- my day consists of not only doing office work, but dodging bullets and mortars going to meetings and heading to the bomb shelter every 2 or so hours when the Taliban shoot RPGs onto the base- God forbid I have a meeting outside the base, it takes 4 hours for EOD to clear 2 miles of road. So a meeting that was supposed to held on a Monday is postponed until Wednesday so explosive-disposal teams could clear 30-mile stretch of road.
The reason everyone heads to work between 5 and 6am is so we don't become targets for snipers- 3 contractors were killed last week alone here- one guy was killed on his way back from buying a Latte, hope it was worth it for him...
Some Afghan workers are re-installing shatter-proof glass in the office because of the impact of so many rockets these days.
Makes for an interesting work day, don't you think?
Right now, I would trade my job with anyone so I could be a teacher again. It is consistent, stable and most of all- safe. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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It's interesting that someone mentions the whole "social cost" thing with companies and unemployment.
I mean all the people at the department stores and grocersies doing nothing but smiling and bowing at you for 12 hours isn't very efficient. Not to mention kinda overkill.
On the other hand it gives people a job.
The way I see things whether people work a lot or a little it all ends up producing long-term problems and lifestyle issues that have to be dealt with.
For example being more efficient and generating more leisure time is good in a sense, however once you have leisure time you tend to spend money on things. You're relaxed so you don't think as much about saving money. Being at work means you aren't spending.
That and lets not discount the benefits of gross production over per hour production. A thte end of the day if you spend 12 hours to earn 1000 and someone spends 10 hour to earn 900, the other person is more efficient, but the first person still generates more income. With a hard-working person the 10 hour guy can go and get another job and exceede that 1000. However with average joe you are going to go home and sack in front of the TV whether you work 10 or 12 hours.
We must also remember overtime laws and such. One reason people don't work more in some countries is because of overtime laws. That can generate its own inefficiency and lost productivity as well.
I remember back in the states I wanted to work more than 40 hours a week because I was paid by the hour. My boss couldn't/wouldn't because it meant time and a half. I could have made 100-200 extra bucks a week if there hadn't been overtime laws. All lost because of the 40 hour work week mindset.
On the other hand that time denied meant that my boss had to hire someone else, thereby generating employment for another person. So there are pluses and minuses to everything.
I for one would rather work four 10 to 12 hour shifts and have 3 days off. Make it worth my while and I'd do 5 days of that.
| Quote: |
| If you take the fact that Koreans have the highest rate of industrial deaths, traffic fatalities and suicides one wouldn't be remiss to conclude that the value of safety and/or life isn't so high around here; |
On the other hand its probably one of the few countries that is safe to wander around in at any time of day in just about any neighborhood. Even the panhandlers here have manners.
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| A lot of Koreans would take pride in that statistic, but then fail to consider the possible correlation to high suicide rates, health problems and shortened interaction time with spouses and children. |
Judging by Korean film, I think Koreans do make that correlation. It's seen as a sacrifice though.
Not saying I agree with it, but I see why they think that that is good.
On the other hand a certain Dave's poster failed to look at the plot of, say just about every Korean movie out there, and correlate the fact that Koreans DO correlate working hard and suicide, health problems, and less interaction time.
When Reginald Mitchell burns the midnight oil designing Spitfires and sacrifciing his health its seen as noble.
When a Korean person burns the midnightoil to send their kids to college its seen as dumb and inefficient and an example of backwards culture.
When its the home team everything changes. |
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bobbybigfoot
Joined: 05 May 2007
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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The amount of hours Koreans work is ridiculous. I know one girl who works from 9 to 7:00, but is expected to stay an extra hour or else be considered "not part of the team".
*She's obliged to go out for drinks when "asked" by the boss; she must remain there until the boss "tells her" it's okay for her to leave.
* She must work every second Saturday from 9 to 2, but, again, must log an extra hour.
In total, she's working, on average, 69 hours a week. Her salary is 1.3 million for the first three months. She does not know what her raise will be after the promotional period is up. She considers it impolite to ask. The boss will give as he sees fit.
She's making less than 5,000 Won an hour now, and probably 7,000 won in the near future. |
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CeleryMan
Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| No whining, just work ethic, WE DO WORK SON! |
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samd
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| 6 year old stats. There has been reform since then. Maybe the 6-day working week had something to do with it? |
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