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lip
Joined: 11 Oct 2007
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 Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:26 pm Post subject: Withholding Whole months pay+! |
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Hi
I have been working in Towol Elementary School in Changwon. I was fired a month ago and yesterday was my last day.
I received a letter(below) from the recruitor. They say they will with hold my pay. They say I have to pay the following fees below. Mr Choi ung ki is also a recruitor. Kelly and him do some recruiting in the Changwon, Jang yu area. Recruitor is responsible for paying me 200,000 and Towol Elem. 2.1 mill. a month.
I worked there for five months. This is from my contract. EPIK contract.
"employee shall immediately pay back employer the air ticket and other expenses that the employer has incurred in the process of hiring the employee"
can they get away with this?
Ian,
Sorry to reply quite late.
I needed time to figure out what's going on and also am confused what my resonsibilities are like.
Anyway, Mr. Choi asked Towol elementary school to hold your final pay because you're deliberately terminating this contract within 6 months.
In this situation, why your terminating is called "deliberating" is you haven't showed any sign of change at work even though you have been warned several times for correction.
Since it was very important for you to cooperate with your coworkers to keep this job, you overlooked it intentionally and the school assumed that you have no willingness to continue the job.
Also, when it comes to the accomodation, it's provided by the employer not by your choice.
Therefore, Mr. Choi doesn't have the duty for your current apartment.
Right now, you owe him this month salary for the reimbursement.
This is the list of the details.
1. housing - 0.48 mil. (Jun.20 - Jul.31)
2. Visarun - 0.32 mil.
3. Replacement - 0.4 mil.
4. Recruiting - 1.1 mil.
It's from Mr. Choi's letter to Towol elementary school and I'm delivering this details to you.
Please let me know if you have questions but unfortunately I will be away with my family till Mon., so there might be some delay of the response.
Sorry for what has happened and talk soon.
Kelly |
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cert43
Joined: 17 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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Set Kandem legal services on his ass NOW  |
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Monopoly
Joined: 06 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| welcome to Korea. |
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SunDevil Dre
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| So, you were fired for insubordination? Or performance? |
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OculisOrbis
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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Why are you even talking to a recruiter? You dont work for the recruiter and the recruiter sure as hell doesnt work for you. It's between you and your employer - keep it that way. The recruiter is there to cover their own ass and protect their money. Refuse to accept that crap he is telling your school and cease any and all contact with the recruiter as its only his interests being represented, not yours. Start talking to your school. When ever the school starts talking about the recruiter, politely tell them to stay focused on you and that recruiter is their issue, not yours.
The only things you should be repaying are your 1.3million travel allowance (or cost of the plane ticket if thats how they got you here. In your case, it looks like the cost of the ticket for the visa run) and the 300 000 won settlement allowance they give in a standard EPIK contract (if you received it). You are responsible for NONE of the recruiting and replacement costs. |
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OculisOrbis
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| And what kind scam are they running that your recruiter chips in part of your salary every month? |
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Senior
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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How the hell did you manage to get fired from a PS?
You just achieved the almost impossible. I saw a dude get shit canned drunk on soju at the orientation meeting/sojourn and refused to get back on the boat and had to be forcibly carried by some of the bigger dudes. This was in front of the main co-ordinator plus a few miscellaneous big wigs. He had his contract renewed later that year, no problem. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Senior wrote: |
How the hell did you manage to get fired from a PS?
You just achieved the almost impossible. I saw a dude get shit canned drunk on soju at the orientation meeting/sojourn and refused to get back on the boat and had to be forcibly carried by some of the bigger dudes. This was in front of the main co-ordinator plus a few miscellaneous big wigs. He had his contract renewed later that year, no problem. |
This doesn't sound like a typical P.S situation. He's got a recruiter paying him part of his salary and as far as I am aware that clause about paying back other expenses is not in the 2010 EPIK contract. OP could you post your contract? It sounds a bit fishy but without this info we can only provide limited help. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:07 pm Post subject: Re: Withholding Whole months pay+! |
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| lip wrote: |
Hi
I have been working in Towol Elementary School in Changwon. I was fired a month ago and yesterday was my last day. |
AFAIK, the school is not your actual employer if you are on EPIK. The Provinical/Metropolitan Office of Education is the employer. That means your principal cannot fire you. Only the P/MOE can do that.
| Quote: |
| I received a letter(below) from the recruitor. |
The recruiter can blow smoke. You owe them nothing. As other posters have mentioned, the recruiter is an agent of the employer. Further, he's only such an agent until one of his prospects--in this case, you--is placed with the employer.
| Quote: |
| They say they will with hold my pay. |
Who is they? If it's the recruiter, they can blow more smoke. If it's the school, they must follow the procedures set by the P/MOE.
| Quote: |
| They say I have to pay the following fees below. Mr Choi ung ki is also a recruitor. Kelly and him do some recruiting in the Changwon, Jang yu area. Recruitor is responsible for paying me 200,000 and Towol Elem. 2.1 mill. a month. |
You say your contract is an EPIK contract; however, this looks more like an after-school program. Are you employed for an after-school program? If so, that is not EPIK.
| Quote: |
I worked there for five months. This is from my contract. EPIK contract.
"employee shall immediately pay back employer the air ticket and other expenses that the employer has incurred in the process of hiring the employee"
can they get away with this? |
Yes, they can get away with withholding the contracted levies provided such levies are not contrary to law. If you're lucky, though, you may be able to get the local Labor Board interested in your case because it seems to be an obvious case of canning the employee before the "sixth months" protection kicks in by law.
I recommend you edit out both your real name and that of your employer.
| Quote: |
Sorry to reply quite late.
I needed time to figure out what's going on and also am confused what my resonsibilities are like. |
Oh, please!  There's not a recruiter in the country who's confused about his responsibilities here.
| Quote: |
Anyway, Mr. Choi asked Towol elementary school to hold your final pay because you're deliberately terminating this contract within 6 months.
In this situation, why your terminating is called "deliberating" is you haven't showed any sign of change at work even though you have been warned several times for correction. |
Were these warnings in writing? If not, they're bunk. Speaking of which, did your employer give you a written notice of termination? If not, keep showing up for work. If you don't show up, that in itself is grounds for immediate termination.
| Quote: |
| Since it was very important for you to cooperate with your coworkers to keep this job, you overlooked it intentionally and the school assumed that you have no willingness to continue the job. |
They can assume anything they want. But what they cannot do is read your mind.
| Quote: |
Also, when it comes to the accomodation, it's provided by the employer not by your choice.
Therefore, Mr. Choi doesn't have the duty for your current apartment. |
Your contract with your employer provides for them to provide you an apartment at no cost, right? Until you're actually terminated they owe you a rent-free apartment.
| Quote: |
Right now, you owe him this month salary for the reimbursement.
This is the list of the details.
1. housing - 0.48 mil. (Jun.20 - Jul.31) |
Your OP states that you were fired a month ago and that today's your last day. That means they gave you five weeks notice instead of canning you and giving you a month's salary in lieu. You certainly do not owe them anything at all for the contractually-provided housing while you were still their employee.
| Quote: |
| 2. Visarun - 0.32 mil. |
Well, you did sign that contract and that visa run is an expense in hiring you.
| Quote: |
| 3. Replacement - 0.4 mil. |
WRONG! Hiring a replacement is not hiring you. The scum I worked for in Incheon tried that stunt on the Canadian worker and the government didn't let it fly then.
| Quote: |
| 4. Recruiting - 1.1 mil. |
That's another expense in hiring you. I'm kind of surprised they didn't try to get you to pay for the replacement's recruiting costs, though, given that stunt about paying for the replacement's salary.
| Quote: |
It's from Mr. Choi's letter to Towol elementary school and I'm delivering this details to you.
Please let me know if you have questions but unfortunately I will be away with my family till Mon., so there might be some delay of the response.
Sorry for what has happened and talk soon.
{Korean recruiter's fake English name here} |
I'd politely respond that I'm going to take the contract, my bank book (books, plural, if you were tricked into falling for that stunt too), and all correspondence with me to the Labor Board, the Tax Office, the National Health Office, the Pension Office, and the P/MOE the very first thing come Monday morning. I might also suggest that the recruiter and the principal figure out a way to get me paid everything they owe me prior to the opening of business at the aforementioned governmental agencies as I can't be interrupted while conducting my business there.
Next time you're given something by your employer here and it's any kind of negative stuff, such as a warning letter, do not accept it and definitely never sign the thing. Others have given this advice in many threads: If you're given a month's notice instead of a month's salary, just bail without warning. Now you know why they give that advice. |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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Another short piece of advice.
If you're still living in the provided apartment, pack your bags and leave them with a friend. There's a good chance that they'll come by while you're gone and clear it out or change the locks. Don't put it past people who are this dishonest. |
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lip
Joined: 11 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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this was a normal public school job. 840-440pm. i received one written warning. and a second which sadi i am terminated.
the termination letter i received one week after i refused to move from my apart.. In the beginng i complained about my housing not being very nice and smelly. They said we dont like it either and in 3 months we'll find you a better place. 3 months came and they didnt find me a better place but a worse one farther from my work. So i said i refuse to move and if you insist then i will quit. they said i dont have a choice.
So i never moved and thats why i think they are charging me for rent.
my letter said nothing about that. said the reasons for firing me were.
*i didnt answer the phone in the english center.
*i didnt follow the korean teachers "orders"
*didnt come to work on time-kinda true i was frequently five minutes late to sit in my chair.
*failure to manage the english center as requested-contract says nothing about an "english center"
*personal remarks to co workers-to one yes..coteacher couldnt stand her..and she to me too because i wasnt Christian said "are you lost?"
*on lunch breaks i didnt stay in the "english center"-some what true that was during recess and if few kids were in there i would go play soccer with the kids outside. the other co-teacher was in there.
*failure to correct students homework-once i was ordered to and i didnt care for her attitude and so i said NO. one time.
i didnt sign a single warning or termination letter. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:03 am Post subject: |
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You get nothing. You petered it all away with the two magic words: "I quit."
Whether you actually occupy the provided apartment is irrelevant so long as the place was provided. What you did was refuse to vacate one where the lease on your behalf was terminated. You therefore owe the owner of the apartment rent for the time you were squatting there. What you could have done was refuse the new apartment and move into one you found yourself, thereby getting the housing allowance.
| Quote: |
| *i didnt answer the phone in the english center. |
If that's in your duties, then you are required to do so. Check your contract. No doubt there's a line in there about "performing additional duties as instructed." That would be one of those addtional duties.
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| *i didnt follow the korean teachers "orders" |
The Korean teachers are the bosses in the class. You are their assistant. That means they're in charge.
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| *didnt come to work on time-kinda true i was frequently five minutes late to sit in my chair. |
That's not "kind of true." It's just plain true. If you're frequently late for work, then you have a time management problem. That's your fault, not the employer's.
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| *failure to manage the english center as requested-contract says nothing about an "english center" |
But the contract does say something about additional duties. That would be another one of those. As with the other one, this one's actually related to English teaching so there's no way to wish it away.
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| *personal remarks to co workers-to one yes..coteacher couldnt stand her..and she to me too because i wasnt Christian said "are you lost?" |
Are you sure she was talking about faith? Maybe she was asking you if you were lost because you were headed for the women's room instead of the men's room. And how did you find out her faith? I've been at the same public school for over four years and I only know the religious affiliation of one person there since we were discussing a story he was reading about his own church.
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| *on lunch breaks i didnt stay in the "english center"-some what true that was during recess and if few kids were in there i would go play soccer with the kids outside. the other co-teacher was in there. |
If your job duties require you to be in the English Center and you decided on your own to go somewhere else, then you were absent without permission. That's grounds for immediate termination.
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| *failure to correct students homework-once i was ordered to and i didnt care for her attitude and so i said NO. one time. |
HAHAHAHAHA! You didn't care for your supervisor's attitude? Friend, it's your attitude, not to mention incredibly stupid actions, that got you into the situation you now find yourself. If your job duties required you to correct students' homework and you refused to do so, that's grounds for immediate termination.
I don't know if it's because you're upset or if that's the way you usually write; however, it's getting a bit difficult to follow your posts. Take a breather.
Oh, and please don't ever teach in Korea again. The rest of us here really don't need someone like you tarnishing the image the way you just did. |
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blonde researcher
Joined: 16 Oct 2006
Location: Globalizing in Korea for the time being
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:05 am Post subject: |
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With the 2010 EPIK contracts the recruiters apparently have to pay back the recruiting fee they have received to the school or EPIK up to 6-9 months after a teacher starts.
You are going at 5 months, so your recruiter will be getting a demand to pay back the 1 million he got from the POE or EPIK
I think the school would have been aware of this limit and got you fired before then so they could make the recruiter pay.
Also if an EPIK teacher leaves any time before 6 months and does not pay back the 1.3 airticket allowance for entry the POE demands this off the recruiter as well. New rules this year apparently as I know a teacher who did a runner at 5 months and the recruiter came after him for blood !
As for getting fired from public schools not happening, rules have changed most likely with an overflow of EPIK applicants,and schools and co teachers may just have started calling the shots! |
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lip
Joined: 11 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:27 am Post subject: |
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Centralcali
wow! arent you such a know it all.
you act like you have all the answers and know it all. you are the typical weak kind of person i hear from when i visit forums. i have a letter for you below- the critic.
yeah the woman was a holy rolling freak...god this and god that...blah, blah
this isnt my first job you know. i realized public school isnt for me. i am not a subordinate here to take orders from an assistant teacher who has less experience than me and who consistently makes english mistakes.
"In many ways the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little. Yet enjoy a position over those who offer up there work and their sales to our judgement. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write or read. But the better of truth that we critics must face-Is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so......"
-Anton Ego, from the movie Ratatouille |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:45 am Post subject: |
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| lip wrote: |
wow! arent you such a know it all.
you act like you have all the answers and know it all. you are the typical weak kind of person i hear from when i visit forums. i have a letter for you below- the critic. |
I'm not so weak as to not understand the contract I signed. There's nothing "know-it-all" about my post. It's a fair and incredibly accurate description of the events you've related in this thread.
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| yeah the woman was a holy rolling freak...god this and god that...blah, blah |
Well, you managed to answer that one. Good job.
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| this isnt my first job you know. i realized public school isnt for me. i am not a subordinate here to take orders from an assistant teacher who has less experience than me and who consistently makes english mistakes. |
By contract, you actually are. Your job title is assistant teacher. Your contract, assuming it actually is an EPIK standard contract, states that your job is to assist the Korean teacher. Feel free to read a few definitions of the word assistant.
You should be the last person ever to criticize another's English mistakes given your atrocious presentation of the language in this thread.
By the way, I notice you weren't at all upset when I gave accurate answers regarding what the employer could and could not do. Now that you've admitted that you weren't terminated but rather you quit, your tune is quite different. Perhaps you could find something amusing relating to that in one of Aesop's fables.
Actually, I hope you do sashay into the Labor Board with your tale of woe. They'll be quite amused when it comes out that you quit. |
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