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Who are the fools using recruiters?
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hagwonnewbie



Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Location: Asia

PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:12 pm    Post subject: Who are the fools using recruiters? Reply with quote

I'm on my fourth contract and I have never used a recruiter for anything other than entertainment.

Let's stop feeding this parasitism. I mean why would you pay retail, when you could pay wholesale? Let's cut out the middlemen!
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jrwhite82



Joined: 22 May 2010

PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How dd you get your first job in Korea?
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nchannah



Joined: 13 May 2010

PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My recruiter has been really helpful with the annoying visa process, I'd have definitely made a mistake somewhere along the way without her. If I was already in Korea and knew what I was doing, then yes, I'd go straight to the schools...but that seems kind of impossible for me right now as I am in America and don't speak Korean.
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toph



Joined: 10 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found recruiters absolutely necessary in the very beginning. They were very helpful in answering my personal questions, especially when it came down to things like medical issues. For example, I have epilepsy and most people on Dave's will either tell me 1) that I'm screwed, and can't get a job, 2) the recruiter was lying to me about not being able to find a job, or 3) that I should lie on my application. These were not helpful responses, but the recruiters were able to give me professional advice...even when they were jerks.

I don't use recruiters anymore...but that's because I don't find them necessary. To be honest, I'd say they're a great help for those "newbie" questions, but I'd agree that they're pointless once you don't have anymore questions.
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THCbud



Joined: 27 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so by applying directly to schools, you would get a higher pay?
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mogbert



Joined: 10 May 2004

PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Who are the fools using recruiters? Reply with quote

The middlemen aren't paid by us, so what do we care if we use them or not?

hagwonnewbie wrote:
I'm on my fourth contract and I have never used a recruiter for anything other than entertainment.

Let's stop feeding this parasitism. I mean why would you pay retail, when you could pay wholesale? Let's cut out the middlemen!
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Who are the fools using recruiters? Reply with quote

hagwonnewbie wrote:
I'm on my fourth contract and I have never used a recruiter for anything other than entertainment.

Let's stop feeding this parasitism. I mean why would you pay retail, when you could pay wholesale? Let's cut out the middlemen!


Whether you apply to EPIK directly or apply through a recruiter, you get the same contract for the same wage. What is foolish about using a recruiter in such a situation?
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wjf1



Joined: 14 Apr 2010

PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For my first year I have used a recruiter to be on the safe side. They have answered all my questions throughout the process and they are now sorting out my visa. Through them I can also purchase some items to be there for my arrival e.g. a mobile phone. They also organise get-togethers for their teachers so that will help me settle in as well.
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ttompatz



Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea

PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

THCbud wrote:
so by applying directly to schools, you would get a higher pay?


Nope.

In a public school position the pay scales are set and based on your qualifications and experience so it makes no difference (in term of the jingle in your jeans) whether you use a recruiter or do all the piss work yourself.

Occasionally a recruiter can negotiate a BETTER pay/benefits package on your behalf IF you have the qualifications to back it up AND the school needs you (or rather your skills).

side note:

I have always used recruiters (they have far more connections than I do) and been more than happy with the results.

The key thing to remember is what a recruiter is (and just as importantly - what they are not).

They are an introduction to an employer in places that you would not otherwise find one.

IF you have 10 connections ten you have 10 places to look.
If you contact 10 recruiters and they each have 20 connections then you have bumped the choices up from 10 to 200 (or more).
Cherry pick the top few and make your best deal.

Remember what they are not:
They are not your friend - you are income to them; nothing more.
They don't work for you - they are employed by the school.
Their job is to find the best (or fastest) warm body to fill a position for a school and move on to the next one.
They can't help you when it goes to crap (cause you didn't do your research into the school). At best they can help you find another position - but so can every other recruiter on the planet.

.
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ontheway



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...

PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:12 pm Post subject: Who are the fools using recruiters?



Using recruiters only increases your choices. If you are able to apply directly by email or walking in, fine, do it. But why not increase your choices by letting a recruiter or two look as well? There are many schools who only hire through a recruiter, and if you don't use them you will miss out on some of the best job openings. You can always turn down any offers you might get from them. Besides, whatever openings they turn up for you will give you some insight into other jobs, salaries and interview practice.



THCbud wrote:
so by applying directly to schools, you would get a higher pay?



If you are applying to private schools and hogwans you can get higher pay by going direct. First of all, the school will save 1.2 to 1.5 million by not paying a recruiter. So if you just turn up, they can pay you up to 100k won per month more and come out the same. Secondly, recruiters often ask schools to reduce the amount they are offering, because they don't want schools to upset the market and they want the schools to feel that by using them they can save money even after paying the fee.


Public schools are another matter. Their salary offerings are set in bureaucratic concrete. They are also becoming notorious for putting the screws to people who are a bit short of a year, even just a day, on things like severance and airfare.
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hagwonnewbie



Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Location: Asia

PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The first person I contacted about a job in Korea was a recruiter. I sent him an email because I was curious. 5 minutes later my phone was ringing with a dozen offers. He also answered some of my questions.

Mostly I was scared away by the desperate pushiness.

I found all my jobs on Daves or WorknPlay.


I've yet to hear a story about a recruiter that helped a teacher in crisis. However I have heard many stories about dodgy, ill informed and ill intentioned recruiters.

Here's the typical sob story: A recruiter lies to get some newb over here to work for a pitance. A couple months later after the newb gets wise and quits, their employer docks 'em 2 mil for recruiting fees and sends them home broke. Then the recruiter is happy 'cause his services are again required by the same employer.
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OiGirl



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: Hoke-y-gun

PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got my first job by interviewing with the company directly. At that time, I had also interviewed with Mike Oh, so you can see why I decided recruiters were not the way to go.
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fergalreid



Joined: 02 Apr 2010
Location: Dublin, Ireland

PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hagwonnewbie wrote:


I've yet to hear a story about a recruiter that helped a teacher in crisis.


Footprints and the SMOE debacle last year. 100 teachers were suddenly dropped and these recruiters, possibly along with others, got a good number placed with EPIK asap.
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NYC_Gal



Joined: 08 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My recruiter has been amazing. I'm in my second year and I still keep in touch, and he was very helpful during my renewal process, as well as any contractual issues.
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austinmc86



Joined: 23 Feb 2010

PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Recruiters are good, because they help you find jobs, you don't pay them, a lot of places prefer recruiters and you can go through many to find your best job.
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