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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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 Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:50 pm Post subject: Meat is more murderous than ever. |
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The new vegetarianism: meat is more murderous than ever
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The decisive arrival of the current food crisis must be making them feel even more righteous. As daily news reports now remind us, there are three key factors behind the rocketing price of the most basic foodstuffs: the rising cost of oil, swathes of agricultural land being given over to biofuels, and the fact that the increasing affluence of China and India is spearheading an explosion in the demand for meat and the feed needed to produce it.
From there, it is only a small step towards an argument that is rapidly gaining ground: that with more than 850 million people going hungry, using huge amounts of water, grain, energy and land to rear livestock is a luxury now officially beyond us. This may suggest the arrogant west once again telling the rest of humanity to refrain from what we have happily done for years, but there is another way of thinking about it: � la the contraction and convergence model for tackling climate change, if we are to accommodate other countries' increased demand for meat, we will have to drastically reduce our own. |
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there comes this new vegetarian(ish) agenda, and the chance to make the case against meat-eating on more level-headed grounds: that even if meat will remain part of most people's diet, they are going to have to eat less of it; and that right now, this is actually more about human lives than those of animals.
Newsnight recently ran an item on the arguments for cutting down, stuffed with the requisite statistics; for example, whereas it takes 20.9 square metres of land to produce 1kg of beef, to come up with the same weight of vegetables, the figure is 0.3 square metres. In the ensuing studio discussion, even the pro-meat contributor agreed that the world would now "have to value meat more highly", and Gavin Esler enthusiastically quizzed the vegetarian advocate, rather than trying to tear him to bits.
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Like the writer of this article, I gave up eating meat at 14. There are many reasons why I don't eat meat, and for many years, one of them has been that meat-eating kills people too. That's coming more and more apparant. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| In any case, I will change my views and at least move to seriously cut down my meat eating in light of all of this. |
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crusher_of_heads
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Location: kimbop and kimchi for kimberly!!!!
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Outback Sunday night! |
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Jandar
Joined: 11 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I will try to get as much protein from 1kg of veggies that I can get from 1kg of meat.
Probably beans, but won't that create methane?
Doesn't methane cause global warming?
Eating veggies causes global warming! |
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yawarakaijin
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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For me, meat is like a drug. I might understand the rationale behind eating less but sorry, give me a steak any day of the week.
Anthropologically speaking, isn't eating meat what turned us from savannah scaveging primates into the species we are now? I seem to recall reading somewhere that all those extra calories from fat and bone marrow is what drove the development of our brains. I imagine there must be predispositions left over that drive us to consume meat. I know I'm driven to eat it. 
It might sound heartless and all but if we are given two options:
ONE- A planet of 15 billion people where everyone eats soy products and drinks seaweed milk
or
TWO- A planet of 8 billion where people can eat whatever the hell they wish.
I choose option #2 |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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Can one continue to eat eggs, drink milk, etc., if one decides to begin avoiding meat?
How exactly does this work? What limits our diets in this case? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Oh well, more meat for me then. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| What are the real stats on the increase of meat consumption in India and China? India is full of Hindus who don't eat beef and Moslems who don't eat pork (I know not everyone sticks to the rules) and Chinese food has relatively little meat in it. I'm just wondering. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
Can one continue to eat eggs, drink milk, etc., if one decides to begin avoiding meat?
How exactly does this work? What limits our diets in this case? |
That is the difference between a vegetarian and a vegan.
Though there may be some overlap, a vegetarian will not eat meat but may consume animal products such as cheese, or honey or eggs and milk.
A vegan on the other hand will not eat any animal or animal products, and may not even use animal products such as leather or wool or fur. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| What are the real stats on the increase of meat consumption in India and China? India is full of Hindus who don't eat beef and Moslems who don't eat pork (I know not everyone sticks to the rules) and Chinese food has relatively little meat in it. I'm just wondering. |
I don't know the stats, but when I lived in China 7 years ago, my Chinese friends or collegues all ate meat, but claimed they hadn't done so even just a few years ago. Some of them had never tasted it as children. They were utterly amazed that I insisted on being a vegetarian. That was in the relatively rich Eastern part of China. As China has got wealthier, meat eating has become more and more accessible, and millions more Chinese take it up every year. In all my time there, I only met one Chinese vegetarian. There are hundreds of millions more Chinese who would love the chance to eat meat on a regular basis. |
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Jandar
Joined: 11 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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Who buys American Beef you ask?
Japan 46K metric tons (2007)
Mexico 359K metric tons (2007)
South Korea 25K metric tons (2007)
Canada 132K metric tons (2007)
China/HK 9K metric tons (2007)
Taiwan 22K metric tons (2007)
South Korea imported 246K metric tons in 2003.
http://www.usmef.org/TradeLibrary/files/Beef%201998%20to%202007.pdf |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| yawarakaijin wrote: |
For me, meat is like a drug. I might understand the rationale behind eating less but sorry, give me a steak any day of the week.
Anthropologically speaking, isn't eating meat what turned us from savannah scaveging primates into the species we are now? I seem to recall reading somewhere that all those extra calories from fat and bone marrow is what drove the development of our brains. I imagine there must be predispositions left over that drive us to consume meat. I know I'm driven to eat it.
It might sound heartless and all but if we are given two options:
ONE- A planet of 15 billion people where everyone eats soy products and drinks seaweed milk
or
TWO- A planet of 8 billion where people can eat whatever the hell they wish.
I choose option #2 |
Yes, but you were also designed to eat much more fruit and vegetables than the average Westerner consumes, and nowhere near the amount of meat that we eat.
Studies have shown that the longest living populations in the world eat very little meat. When people from those populations switch to a Western diet, their life span decreases.
You need to revise your maths. 8 billion people eating meat, the way you yourself like to do, can not be sustained on this planet. The only reason you've been able to eat that way for so long is that, until recent times, several billion people rarely ate meat at all. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
Can one continue to eat eggs, drink milk, etc., if one decides to begin avoiding meat?
How exactly does this work? What limits our diets in this case? |
That's a very good question. Needs a long answer. Needs another day when I have more free time!  |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Jandar wrote: |
Yes, I will try to get as much protein from 1kg of veggies that I can get from 1kg of meat.
Probably beans, but won't that create methane?
Doesn't methane cause global warming?
Eating veggies causes global warming! |
It is also a myth that vegetarians do not get enough protein. Very few people in the Western world suffer from lack of protein. With few exceptions, those that do are either suffering from anorexia, or they are seriously ill and unable to eat enough. Vegetarians do not suffer from lack of protein. On the other hand, over-consumption of protein has become associated with serious health issues in the western world. |
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