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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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 Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:09 am Post subject: Gilles Duceppe on The Hour |
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Gilles Duceppe from the separatist bloc is interviewed by George Strombo(etc) on The Hour:
http://www.cbc.ca/thehour/video.html?id=1464571104
I didn't know support for Quebec sovereignty was still so high. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:41 am Post subject: Re: Gilles Duceppe on The Hour |
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I think support for Quebec sovereignty is high in the same sense that support for "kick out the USFK" is high in Korea. People like to hear their politicians talking tough against the behemothic oppressers, but hardly anyone actually wants to cast a ballot in favor of doing something about the alleged oppression.
When Quebec sovereigntists actually put forth a referendum question along the lines of "Do you want Quebec to be an independent country?", and a majority of Quebeckers actually vote yes to that, then I will take Quebec sovereigntists seriously. Not gonna happen in my lifetime, though. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:46 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, I agree. It would immediately become a developing country due to the extreme debt and very low growth.
I liked the interview though. GD safely and peacefully going around the country and making his case for breaking up the country is a pretty positive thing, from a democratic perspective.
George was a fair interviewer too.
Is it true that hoards of Anglo people left Montreal because of the referendum? I've heard that but never seen numbers. |
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Arthur Dent
Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Location: Kochu whirld
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Is it true that hoards of Anglo people left Montreal because of the referendum? I've heard that but never seen numbers. |
Yes, though it wasn't solely the referendum that was the cause. Business had been shifting to Toronto for some years. The business climate had become unfriendly in Montreal, in part due to political uncertainty and the strength of Quebec unions. Also, Toronto was well placed to take advantage of its proximity to American business centers.
I do remember the tension in the air during the October crisis.
I believe one of the biggest businesses to shift its head offices to Toronto was Sun Life Insurance.
Montreal went downhill from there as far as investment was concerned.
I used to have a paper route delivering The Montreal Star. One day I came home from doing my route and turned on the TV. An announcement came on to say that the paper was closing down. Even my depot manager didn't know about it, and didn't believe me when I called to tell her.
You can read about it here:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,916896,00.html
My friend delivered the Gazette and was quite gleeful, as I had often taunted him about getting up at 5 AM, whereas I could sleep in. I had it coming.
Our neighbours were Quebecois, and most of the kids were strong separatists as well. They had a wooden bust of Rene Levesque in their living room. We were friends, but the issue of separatism was a sensitive one. It wasn't something they could discuss rationally.
Some of my other Francophone friends didn't seem to care.
The first referendum question was indeed so vague as to be nearly incomprehensible. We discussed it in history class. The teacher asked if anyone thought Quebec would vote yes. No one raised their hands. This was a protestant school though.
It was seen as a cop-out by many Quebecois, and as a betrayal by the more radical separatists. The economy soon became a more pressing issue.
On the other hand, you are right to compare Korea's nationalism with Quebec's. It is nearly as race based, and has the same source, namely the schools. Catholic schools were full of socialists and separatists. Always blaming the 'outsiders' for their failure to succeed. Often trying to rewrite history.
That said, after the British conquest they really were less able to participate in local business and international trade.
One of the neighbours kids told my brother that the battle on the Plains of Abraham had been "unfair" because Wolfe had climbed the cliffs, which was unexpected. He said that this had been 'sneaky.' My brother said, "Perhaps, but they still lost."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Wolfe
The Quebec government has pretty much behaved as an independent state in recent years. It still seems to be caught in something of a historical tide line, sometimes moving forward, and then moving backwards again, with the predictable effect on the economy. Whenever I meet people who have traveled to Montreal recently, they mostly say that they really liked it though, and had a great time.
The Pure Laine ideal has yet to pass away. |
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Mosley
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Duceppe is the dog crap on my surplus store combat boots.... |
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Paddycakes
Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:49 am Post subject: Re: Gilles Duceppe on The Hour |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
I think support for Quebec sovereignty is high in the same sense that support for "kick out the USFK" is high in Korea. People like to hear their politicians talking tough against the behemothic oppressers, but hardly anyone actually wants to cast a ballot in favor of doing something about the alleged oppression.
When Quebec sovereigntists actually put forth a referendum question along the lines of "Do you want Quebec to be an independent country?", and a majority of Quebeckers actually vote yes to that, then I will take Quebec sovereigntists seriously. Not gonna happen in my lifetime, though. |
"A!"
Secs trois! Dats "rich" hif you dink dat Quebecois liberation ont happen in da "lifetime".
Heneway, hi suppose dat wit yor comment your anodder one hov da da Beverly-'Illbilly-Leaderneck-Slapshot-prarie-farmer-combine-driver qui watch da Ockey Nigh in Canada wit 'is boyfrien, tabernac... just like da "Boys hov da Mountain wit da Broken Back"!!!!
Tabernac, you hinglish tete carre jam tart give me da edake wit your attitude toward da Quebeciois...
Merde, je suis "pure laine" from Cte. Cecile de la Rubber Boot, buddy, not some pepper a L'Acadie, tabernac... Et je suis proud!
Dis blatent "ouest island type who wear da 'tar-tans' " racism from da angophone is getting a bit much 'ere on Dave's, you know...
Heneway, I ear henough habout you an your commen', you wes-highland hinglish school boy kniggit!
"Not gonna happen in my lifetime".... Mon-dieu, taberac... |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| Arthur, thanks for the comment. How have things changed in Montreal since then? Have Anglo Canadians been returning? |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Arthur, thanks for the comment. How have things changed in Montreal since then? Have Anglo Canadians been returning? |
It's a mixed bag, it seems. I don't think there is a lot of confidence in the Parti Quebecois. They have not done well. Support for separation in real terms, not superficial terms, has probably declined a few percentage points, but it's still rather strong. If the question of separation is phrased clearly, les Franco-Quebecois would reject separation.
62% of people in Quebec want to remain part of Canada. Some want more autonomy, or to feel their culture is protected adequately mais les gens sont contre la separation a l'instant du Canada. I think Duceppe is exaggeration the support, though it is still significant.
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/32029410/Separation-from-Canada-Unlikely-for-a-Majority-of-Quebecers/
Je suis tanne d'entendre de la separation, c'est un tabarnac d'une idee, mes grands! |
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Welsh Canadian
Joined: 03 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:35 am Post subject: Re: Gilles Duceppe on The Hour |
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It isn't. It's just a few people making it out to be.
Seriously, No one talks about it in Canada or Ontario anyway. I think even the people in Quebec are fed up of people saying they should seperate.
All Ottawa would have to say is that the wellfare in Quebec would be drastically reduced in Quebec if they seperated. Then there would be no issue of Quebec sovereignty. End of Story |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:33 am Post subject: Re: Gilles Duceppe on The Hour |
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| Paddycakes wrote: |
Tabernac, you hinglish tete carre jam tart give me da edake wit your attitude toward da Quebeciois...
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See here, old fellow. This is an English teachers' forum, intellectual watering-hole for the linguistic foot-soldiers of the Empire. Would it have killed you to drop a few Parizeauian "By Joves" in there? |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: Gilles Duceppe on The Hour |
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| Welsh Canadian wrote: |
It isn't. It's just a few people making it out to be.
Seriously, No one talks about it in Canada or Ontario anyway. I think even the people in Quebec are fed up of people saying they should seperate.
All Ottawa would have to say is that the wellfare in Quebec would be drastically reduced in Quebec if they seperated. Then there would be no issue of Quebec sovereignty. End of Story |
Surement, les anglais ont commi beaucoup d'injustices envers les franco-ontariens, les franco-quebeois et les francophones de l'ouest dans le passe, au paravant. A cause de ces evenements les gens qui ne peuvent pas oublier le passe soutient la separation mais ce n'est pas la majorite.
The English committed many injustices against French Canadians and so did many English Canadians, but that was in the past. It's not 1910.
Canada has done a lot to rectify things over the past 50 years or so.
Due to the events of the past, some who won't forget (Je me souviens) support separation, but they are not the majority. If one goes by elections, separation has a lot of support, but that support has declined.
If one compares even the polls between 2005 and 2009, just four years later, one will have seen a marked decline.
I have the impression that more are embracing the idea of being part of Canada and learning English for professional reasons. Anglophones were annoyed to no end between say 1994 til around 2000 with discussions regarding separation. I am glad Pauline Marois isn't in power anymore.
I can't stand that woman. |
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Welsh Canadian
Joined: 03 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:07 pm Post subject: Re: Gilles Duceppe on The Hour |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| Welsh Canadian wrote: |
It isn't. It's just a few people making it out to be.
Seriously, No one talks about it in Canada or Ontario anyway. I think even the people in Quebec are fed up of people saying they should seperate.
All Ottawa would have to say is that the wellfare in Quebec would be drastically reduced in Quebec if they seperated. Then there would be no issue of Quebec sovereignty. End of Story |
Surement, les anglais ont commi beaucoup d'injustices envers les franco-ontariens, les franco-quebeois et les francophones de l'ouest dans le passe, au paravant. A cause de ces evenements les gens qui ne peuvent pas oublier le passe soutient la separation mais ce n'est pas la majorite.
The English committed many injustices against French Canadians and so did many English Canadians, but that was in the past. It's not 1910.
Canada has done a lot to rectify things over the past 50 years or so.
Due to the events of the past, some who won't forget (Je me souviens) support separation, but they are not the majority. If one goes by elections, separation has a lot of support, but that support has declined.
If one compares even the polls between 2005 and 2009, just four years later, one will have seen a marked decline.
I have the impression that more are embracing the idea of being part of Canada and learning English for professional reasons. Anglophones were annoyed to no end between say 1994 til around 2000 with discussions regarding separation. I am glad Pauline Marois isn't in power anymore.
I can't stand that woman. |
I think Quebec wanted seperation until the Olympics. Then they realized the amount of money they were getting from Canada and how well they did together with other athletes from Canada. |
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| I remember one of my old professors speculated that if Quebec had separated from Canada, the other Canadian provinces might then decide to join the USA. I don't recall what his exact reasoning was. But of course, he also thought that there was no longer any real possibility of a Quebec seccession. |
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Arthur Dent
Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Location: Kochu whirld
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| Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Arthur, thanks for the comment. How have things changed in Montreal since then? Have Anglo Canadians been returning? |
Ironically in this case, I haven't been back there for 20 years. 
My family left there one by two.
Many of my friends also left, but some are still there. |
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guava
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 3:24 am Post subject: |
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| For a while I thought this was about Dizzy Gillespie, the bebop trumpeter. |
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