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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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 Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:55 pm Post subject: Vegetarian...healthy? |
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Vegetarian lifestyle...healthy?
This thread is an offshoot of the vegetarian in Korea thread so not as to derail the original one.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12460231
This study shows that not only iron but B12 as well can be compromised by a vegetarian diet.
That said, if you supplement your diet with certain vitamins and minerals a vegetarian diet can be quite healthy. But as the study shows, not everyone does that. |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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Of course it can be unhealthy, but many vegetarians do supplement. When I was a kid I tried being vegetarian without knowing to supplement and I got sick. I was eating mainly peanut butter 
Now, I get most of my nutrients through foods, but do supplement to ensure that I don't lack anything. I even cheat a little here because even the kimchi has seafood (unless it's the white stuff) and many things here have a bit of seafood broth as a base. I try to avoid it, though.
There are plenty of omnivores who lack key nutrients. Think of that guy you know who eats only junk food, or the girl who never eats any fruit and veg. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
Of course it can be unhealthy, but many vegetarians do supplement. When I was a kid I tried being vegetarian without knowing to supplement and I got sick. I was eating mainly peanut butter
Now, I get most of my nutrients through foods, but do supplement to ensure that I don't lack anything. I even cheat a little here because even the kimchi has seafood (unless it's the white stuff) and many things here have a bit of seafood broth as a base. I try to avoid it, though.
There are plenty of omnivores who lack key nutrients. Think of that guy you know who eats only junk food, or the girl who never eats any fruit and veg. |
True but those are extreme examples whereas a vegan or vegetarian diet without supplements even if not extreme can lead to a greater depletion of iron than an ordinary omnivore's diet. |
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Poltergeist
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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Drydell posted these links in another thread. Hopefully someone will weigh in and tell us which results are more reliable/definitive and why. B12 I think everyone knows about, so that's a separate issue.
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Dazed and Confused
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm ex-veg and I can agree that it is possible to be an unhealthy vegetarian. I've known vegetarians who ate almost nothing but cheese sandwhiches and french fries! I have always believed variety is the only way to go on any diet. It doesn' t matter if you eat meat or not. I think a perfect example is the rabbit starvation that happend in Alaska during the gold rush. |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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Oh of course. A healthy vegetarian needs to eat a lot of beans (especially lentils!), iron-rich veg, and (one of my favorites) raisins.
Most by-choice vegetarians try to be healthy. Many omnivores don't. |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
Of course it can be unhealthy, but many vegetarians do supplement. When I was a kid I tried being vegetarian without knowing to supplement and I got sick. I was eating mainly peanut butter
Now, I get most of my nutrients through foods, but do supplement to ensure that I don't lack anything. I even cheat a little here because even the kimchi has seafood (unless it's the white stuff) and many things here have a bit of seafood broth as a base. I try to avoid it, though.
There are plenty of omnivores who lack key nutrients. Think of that guy you know who eats only junk food, or the girl who never eats any fruit and veg. |
True but those are extreme examples whereas a vegan or vegetarian diet without supplements even if not extreme can lead to a greater depletion of iron than an ordinary omnivore's diet. |
A vegetarian diet without supplements or getting nutrients from food IS an extreme example 
Last edited by NYC_Gal 2.0 on Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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Mr/Ms drydell posted three links in the other thread 2 of which I shall repost here and critique each one
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10232635
The diet was lactovovegetarian meaning animal products were consumed such as milk and eggs. Many strict vegetarians do not eat animal products though.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10479197
This states that "mean serum ferritin concentrations were significantly lower in vegetarians than in omnivores."
Hardly a defense of the vegetarian diet. It does go on to say that
"however similar numbers of vegetarians (18%) and omnivores (13%) had serum ferritin concentrations <13 microg/L which is a value often used as an indicator of low iron stores.
This is slightly better however note that a higher percentage of vegetarians had this blood value meaning that more are/were at risk than for omnivores. Again hardly a ringing endorsement for the vegetarian lifestyle.
As for the third link...it's rather lengthy...when I get around to finishing it I'll post here about it.
Last edited by TheUrbanMyth on Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:44 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Mr/Ms drydell posted three links in the other thread 2 of which I shall repost here and critique each one
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10232635
The diet was lactovovegetarian meaning animal products were consumed such as milk and eggs. Many strict vegetarians do not eat animal products though. |
Those are vegans, not vegetarians. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
Of course it can be unhealthy, but many vegetarians do supplement. When I was a kid I tried being vegetarian without knowing to supplement and I got sick. I was eating mainly peanut butter
Now, I get most of my nutrients through foods, but do supplement to ensure that I don't lack anything. I even cheat a little here because even the kimchi has seafood (unless it's the white stuff) and many things here have a bit of seafood broth as a base. I try to avoid it, though.
There are plenty of omnivores who lack key nutrients. Think of that guy you know who eats only junk food, or the girl who never eats any fruit and veg. |
True but those are extreme examples whereas a vegan or vegetarian diet without supplements even if not extreme can lead to a greater depletion of iron than an ordinary omnivore's diet. |
A vegetarian diet without supplements or getting nutrients from food IS an extreme example |
A vegetarian diet without supplements is hardly extreme. Lots of people both omnivores and vegetarians don't take adequate minerals or vitamins in their diet and don't supplement either. |
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Poltergeist
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Mr/Ms drydell posted three links in the other thread 2 of which I shall repost here and critique each one
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10232635
The diet was lactovovegetarian meaning animal products were consumed such as milk and eggs. Many strict vegetarians do not eat animal products though. |
Those are vegans, not vegetarians. |
Who? I'm completely confused by this comment.
BTW that's one problem with some of these studies ... they deal with vegans in addition to many people who aren't vegan or on their way to veganism at all. One study seems to include nonvegetarians among the "vegetarians" and only two out of 50 women in the sample are vegan. "Non-flesheater" is a more inclusive term that doesn't refer to a person's values, what they wear, or their motives for changing their diets. I suggest we use it here for the sake of clarity.
I haven't read through all the links yet either but will come back to this later. |
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Poltergeist
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
Of course it can be unhealthy, but many vegetarians do supplement. When I was a kid I tried being vegetarian without knowing to supplement and I got sick. I was eating mainly peanut butter
Now, I get most of my nutrients through foods, but do supplement to ensure that I don't lack anything. I even cheat a little here because even the kimchi has seafood (unless it's the white stuff) and many things here have a bit of seafood broth as a base. I try to avoid it, though.
There are plenty of omnivores who lack key nutrients. Think of that guy you know who eats only junk food, or the girl who never eats any fruit and veg. |
True but those are extreme examples whereas a vegan or vegetarian diet without supplements even if not extreme can lead to a greater depletion of iron than an ordinary omnivore's diet. |
A vegetarian diet without supplements or getting nutrients from food IS an extreme example |
A vegetarian diet without supplements is hardly extreme. Lots of people both omnivores and vegetarians don't take adequate minerals or vitamins in their diet and don't supplement either. |
Most people get supplements in the form of processed food with supplements added. Nearly all vegans take B12. |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
Of course it can be unhealthy, but many vegetarians do supplement. When I was a kid I tried being vegetarian without knowing to supplement and I got sick. I was eating mainly peanut butter
Now, I get most of my nutrients through foods, but do supplement to ensure that I don't lack anything. I even cheat a little here because even the kimchi has seafood (unless it's the white stuff) and many things here have a bit of seafood broth as a base. I try to avoid it, though.
There are plenty of omnivores who lack key nutrients. Think of that guy you know who eats only junk food, or the girl who never eats any fruit and veg. |
True but those are extreme examples whereas a vegan or vegetarian diet without supplements even if not extreme can lead to a greater depletion of iron than an ordinary omnivore's diet. |
A vegetarian diet without supplements or getting nutrients from food IS an extreme example |
A vegetarian diet without supplements is hardly extreme. Lots of people both omnivores and vegetarians don't take adequate minerals or vitamins in their diet and don't supplement either. |
People who go veg tend to be more health conscious. I'm not saying that there aren't those who go the beer and cheese sandwich route (I know one!) but, for the most part we are a healthy bunch. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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The third link basically states that nothing can be proved either way.
It does admit though that with a vegetarian diet the absorption of iron and zinc is lower and states in particular women may have great difficulty in meeting recommended iron intakes with food alone. |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Poltergeist wrote: |
| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Mr/Ms drydell posted three links in the other thread 2 of which I shall repost here and critique each one
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10232635
The diet was lactovovegetarian meaning animal products were consumed such as milk and eggs. Many strict vegetarians do not eat animal products though. |
Those are vegans, not vegetarians. |
Who? I'm completely confused by this comment.
BTW that's one problem with some of these studies ... they deal with vegans in addition to many people who aren't vegan or on their way to veganism at all. One study seems to include nonvegetarians among the "vegetarians" and only two out of 50 women in the sample are vegan. "Non-flesheater" is a more inclusive term that doesn't refer to a person's values, what they wear, or their motives for changing their diets. I suggest we use it here for the sake of clarity.
I haven't read through all the links yet either but will come back to this later. |
The "strict vegetarians" he was describing (that don't eat dairy or eggs) are vegans. One can be a vegan by diet, even if not subscribing to the animal-product free lifestyle. Vegans would argue, but the diet would be called a vegan diet. A good 75% of my diet back home was vegan. If pumpernickel or sourdough whole grain toast with cheese weren't so darned tasty, I'd have probably been completely vegan (diet-wise, not shoe-wise). |
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