Korean Job Discussion Forums

[WillTurnerinVanCity]

Hi Everyone,

I posted this in another thread, but some suggested that it might deserve to be treated as a new topic.

I've seen a lot of comments about people with X qualifications not getting positions, and a lot of theories as to why they didn't get the job when somebody of lesser qualifications did.

I rarely read anything about poor interviewing. Before you ask, I agree that the interview is not the only factor in the selection process, and I'm not saying that the interview is the entire reason for 100% of these situations. Just that this is rarely discussed.

I see a lot of people speculating on the motivations for EPIK and other schools or organizations. They point out that they have 5 years of experience, or that they have a Master's degree, etc., and are shocked that the job went to somebody else. The discussions generally focus solely on the basics of experience and qualifications, but rarely on the intangible aspects of the interview. I suspect it is due to the fact that people who are awful in interviews don't know that they are awful in interviews. If they did, they would fix it.

Interviews are difficult. If you're interviewing for a position, you have to prepare - not just in terms of research but also in terms of mechanics and how you come across. It is an important skill to have, not just for the EPIK process, but in general.

I've been working at Footprints for three years and I normally do 3-4 30 minute interviews a day, sometimes more depending upon the time of year. I've done well over 1000 of these, and while 30 minutes isn't that much time to get to know somebody, it is plenty of time for somebody to come across in a negative way. First impressions are important.

You have to make yourself sound good. You have to make yourself sound like the best possible candidate for a position. Sadly, a lot of people, while attempting to make themselves sound good, cross the threshold and make themselves sound arrogant.

Likewise, some people want to be professional, they want to come across clearly in what they want, and what they expect out of the business relationship they are hoping to have with their recruiter or their school. They want the recruiter to know that they want X area, nothing else. They will only accept offers between X amount and X amount. They want such and such hours, with this much vacation. They feel that their qualifications and experience make them entitled to this. When done properly, this is perfectly acceptable. However, again, sometimes it isn't what you say, but how you say it, or even how the person on the other end perceives it. There is a fine line between clearly articulating what you want and appearing like a demanding, high maintenance, hard to get a long with personality. A personality that won't be offered a position.

Anyway, I hadn't seen much conversation about this on Dave's, and I thought I would throw it out there. It is almost like that "he's just not that into" idea. In all relationships it seems, business or personal, people would rather find external reasons for why they aren't chosen than be critical of themselves.

Again, I'm not speaking to anyone in particular, and I do agree that there probably are situations where employers prefer to higher a fresh grad at a lower rate than a 10 year professional.

This is just a post I've been wanting to throw out there for awhile, and see what the Dave's community thought of the issue. I'd appreciate your thoughts.

-Will at Footprints

[amnsg2]

I think there's definitely truth in this. My first ever phone interview I prepared for, made sure I had all my questions and researched the school and I walked it. I ended up turning it down a few weeks later, but by then I was used to taking phone calls from agents and I was really complacent about it. I forgot to speak slowly, and to make sure I sounded out all my consonants (because I'm Bri'ish).

I messed up one interview because I spent so long coming up with questions to ask her I forgot that she would ask me questions first. I had to scramble for an answer to a really simple question and it must have sounded terrible. I apparently got the job, but then they decided to go with someone 'with more experience' which was a very nice way of putting it, I thought

[WillTurnerinVanCity]

I'm biased, so I'm hesitant to throw out solutions as they might just be more of what "I would like to see" changed.

Does anybody out there have any suggestions that they've found useful?

[Sector7G]

[WillTurnerinVanCity]

Here are two tips that I think are applicable to both phone interviews and in person interviews.

1. Smile. Especially if you are on the phone. If you're in person, then you are more aware of your body language and you don't necessarily have to keep this in your head. If you are on the phone, you don't keep your body language in mind, and it can really impact things. I call a lot of people, both for interviews and just day-to-day on the job, and there is a difference between the impression that I'm left with by somebody who sounds happy and somebody who sounds distracted or bored.

2. Admit that you are nervous. If it is done in the right way, it can really help you out. First, you can phrase it in such a way that it is positive - "I apologize, I've been anticipating this interview with you all day and I'm very excited about this opportunity and I have to admit that I'm a little nervous."

This also serves to establish a bit of a relationship. It elicits a response from the person who is interviewing you, and it is often supportive. They'll say something like "oh don't worry, it is a quick interview and there is nothing to be nervous about."

Sometimes, it might even help you out in the sense that, say you didn't provide great answers, they'll remember that you were nervous and often people will be slightly more forgiving.

Everyone gets nervous, it is natural. If you aren't nervous it is because you don't care enough about the interview. If you talk to me like you just spent the last 4 hours talking with 20 different recruiters, and you really don't want to be on the phone, it will come across.

Can you think of any others?

Also - what about cross-cultural issues? I'm a Canadian, I deal with Westerners...what about interviewing with, say, a Korean official of some kind?

-Will at Footprints

[edwardcatflap]

[WillTurnerinVanCity]

[Mr. Pink]

People who interview and are worth their salt should know people are going to be nervous when they come in for interviews. I've interviewed about 50-75 people in my life and I've seen all sorts of things.

The advice above is good. DON'T come across as arrogant or that you are doing the school a favor by hiring you. In this competitive job market, that might not be such a problem, but I've found it is something that happens in Korea.

Don't BS, be honest. If the person has a good BS monitor, they will know, and if are you are BSing in an interview, what will you be like to actually work with? Be honest. Sometimes you won't be the right fit, accept that.

When I interviewed I always looked for people who I thought would fit with the rest of the teaching team, in addition to qualified individuals. This is why I say don't BS. We had a guy lay out the BS thick. He did it in such a way that we bought it. By the end of the first semester, this guy was fired. Yes, some schools won't kept you around a whole year if you are THAT bad.

Dress appropriately. I can't say you need a suit, especially if you are interviewing in the wintertime. BUT you need dress pants, dress shirt and a tie. Also CLEAN dress shoes that don't look 10 years old helps too. Not wearing these might get you a job, but I would guess that is a long shot...like the Maple Leafs winning a Stanley Cup.

Be on your game when it comes to interview time. WHY do you want to work where you are interviewing? WHAT can you bring to the team if you are hired?

[languistic]

1. Be yourself. Too many folks try to put on airs or speak in a manner that just isn't natural for them. This may hold up for a 5 or 10 minute interview, but any longer and the cracks begin to appear.

2. Be honest. This works in concert with my first point; never exaggerate or fleece your past accomplishments. In fact, it is probably in your best interests to show a modicum of humility and at times a hint of self-deprecation. It shows strength in character and self-awareness.

3. Body language is important. Of course sitting straight, etc, but eye contact, gesticulation, facial expressions...these are all very important and telling aspects of not just interviewing, but clear speech in general. Don't cross anything! Crossing your legs at the thigh, calf (legs folded and crossed under the chair or God forbid, crossing your arms in front of you at all). This always drives me nuts and puts forward a defensive-type attitude.

4. Prepare a portfolio for every interviewer and make reference to the contents at various points. Again, this is illustrative of a well-prepared, thoughtful applicant.

5. Don't make comments regarding the interviewers' questions. "That's a good question"...yes, to the interviewer it is a good question and even if it really isn't, you are in no position to say anything. Buy your time in other ways and make no assessments of the person assessing you, even if it is praise. During an interview or other method of illustrating your candidacy, praise will always sound false and cheesy, even if you mean it.

[WillTurnerinVanCity]

oh here is another good one.

Don't ask how you did or if you were successful immediately after the interview. I can't think of a situation where that is appropriate.