Korean Job Discussion Forums

[OptimalOptimus]

I�ve lived in Japan, China, and Korea and this is my best job, by far.

I like my job. As a university professor, I work 12 hours a week, have 5.5 months paid vacation, make a decent wage (not earth shattering, but over 2.5 a month), get fabulous gifts from the school like free dinners, $500 gift credit cards and cash bonuses, jackets, wine, running shoes, etc. It�s nice. The director of my department is very kind, the administration is friendly, my apartment is nice, though in an old area, and it�s free. Having an E-1 visa has its own perks too, including a suite shared with diplomats and foreign investors when I go to the immigration office, and very expedited service (getting a new alien card takes 4-7 days in the regular service area of the immigration office, took me 30 minutes at the suite. Same for special visas, like the addition-of-workplace visas and the like. Fabulous!)

My students, alas, are problematic. Most are relatively kind and respectful. But there is a small minority, less than 7%, who get on my nerves. These students, young adults now, forget to bring book, pencil, or paper to class. They sometimes (though rarely) come late, and in general, their work ethic as students is lackluster. Girls doing their make-up in class. Talking while I�m talking or another student is answering or presenting, just ridiculous. Loud talking and screaming in the academic halls, even during exam time, even by my students after they have completed their tests and go outside the classroom�

My questions: Is this laissez-faire approach to higher education by students unique to Asia? I�ve worked at another university before moving to Seoul and the students were similar. Is this the caliber of the students? I have noticed the better and more academically rigorous the department is, the better the students have been. Would an Ivy League school, like SNU, have better student behavior overall? I�ve heard the same thing goes on in some universities in Japan and China.

In America, in both undergrad and graduate school, absolutely NONE of the behavior I�ve seen at these Korean universities ever occurred. It never even approached the outer rims of our collective imaginations to go to class without books, pencil, or paper. Or to come late, especially in a class with less than 30 students. Or to be loud anywhere except the dining halls or student centers or dorms. Certainly not in building where classes are going on.

The loudness, I suppose, will just have to be tolerated and mitigated, but how can I control the behavior in my classrooms. And should I really need to dust off class behavior management skills for a university setting? Any suggestions? Comments? Discuss.

[McGenghis]

All the best Korean students are studying in....other countries. The fact that Korean unis are as exclusive as they are is a way to delude the general populace into believing that Korean universities are competitive by intl standards.

That universities have a goal should be left for another thread.

[Ukon]

What hard ass college did you go to? That happened back home too....

I teach Uni here too....from my understanding, it's alot harder to get kicked out of school than the states....

If you try that crap for long in the states, they usually fail you in classes.....it takes a hell of alot to fail students here, so I've heard.

[grant_steves]

[Hugo85]

The talking in class and the not bringing your stuff to class definitely happened in the universities I've attended in Canada. Both very-well ranked internationaly (one above UoW and one under).

Eating in class, drinking alcohol, texting, flash games, laughing, arriving late, leaving early... it's not only Korea.

[Globutron]

[Ukon]

[v88]

The better the school the better the kids are, but no matter what they do tend to be less motivated and less mature than what I expect.

My school has the top engineering department in the country and students generally behave the way I would expect students to behave, however other departments like the design department are almost so bad it isn't funny (I still love them, but they are pretty bad students).

Job's great, so I deal with it. That's just the way it is.

One of the reasons may be that it is almost impossible to fail (as another poster stated). Students have pretty high expectations for the grades they should get.

[Kimchifart]

[Kimchifart]

[coralreefer_1]

I've been a student at Korean universities for a few years now, and I completely understand where you are coming from. I too have been rather shocked about some of the behavior I have seen.

With that said, I do not believe it is exclusive to Asia. It was the same when I was in grad school in the US, and even it the top tier schools you will see students who don't give a crap/playing with their phones/hung over/talking...etc. I do spend alot of time watching and supplementing my education with opencourseware lectures from Yale and MIT..and when the videographer pans out on the student body in the lecture halls there, you can see much of the same thing (students messing around and such)

In the case of the foreign lecturer in Korea, most likely they are teaching some English related course, and even though it may be a required course many students will not take it seriously. Even at the above opencourseware universities I listed above, those are not "language" courses and yet some students will still act the same way.

I also believe (and do not mean any disrespect when I say this) that the way students act in class is a response to the teacher. I have seen some Korean professors who dont give a darn and students treat them as such, and I have seen others that will stay on their behind about phones/talking..etc..and those professors tend to be the ones who get the most respect from students and produce the best results

We all know the foreign language lecturer is not exactly in a position to change students minds (nor is it their job) Those with Uni jobs make more money and get better benefits, but at the end of the day in many cases they are just higher paid window dressing like so many other hagwon/ps teachers, and many just happily accept this fate and take their money with no complaint (good for them) The way students act in class is a direct result of how much respect and to a certain degree...fear... the teacher has earned. The fact that you are a foreigner has already hurt you in regards to getting respect from Korean students, as they are pretty much taught form day one (kindergarten) that a foreign teacher is supposed to be a fun monkey dancing around to make them happy, but not a real "teacher" Few in the administrative office at most universities have any respect for a foreigner as a teacher other than the fact they fill the "English" related role at their university in regards to marketing. University students know this and in many cases act accordingly.

[Thiuda]

In my opinion, part of the problem comes from too many young people attending university. Not everyone is cut out for academia and many would benefit more from learning a trade, or from being apprenticed. Unfortunately, a university degree, no matter how bad the university, is considered the only valid meal ticket, other options being thought of as less advantageous to the individual. This has led to a glut of students, many of which are being taught at institutions much less interested in educating young minds than in milking parents' chequebooks. I don't think this is a uniquely Korean phenomenon, though maybe it is worse here than elsewhere because of the importance placed on educational achievement.

That being said, the top universities, which can afford to be selective, are very good. The SKY unis, POSTECH and KAIST are among the best in the world and it has been my experience that the student body reflects this.

[take a rest]

The 'give me ice cream' comments are pretty amazing... I think it might be due to the fact that a lot of the girls here aren't expecting to have to be responsible for making their own living, and their main focus in life is looking pretty so that they can snag a rich husband to look after them. Unfortunately, women are half-expected to be childlike... that kind of behavior is rewarded by the men who dominate the society, because they get off on it, I guess.

I've actually had female students who willfully acted the part of the stupid princess because it helped them to feel more confident, and they wanted to appear easy to dominate and unthreatening to the opposite sex... it's a national tragedy. I was working in both an elementary school and middle school for a while, and there was this female student who I will never forget-- she was soo mature and responsible in grade 6... but then she got to middle school, and she decided to go to the dark side... she went from studying hard and participating in class and doing her best no matter what to looking in the mirror, chatting with her friends whenever possible, and just generally not giving a flying squirrel. I kept giving her these sort of pitying looks like 'why do you feel like you have to act like this?', and every now and then her face would change and she would realize that I wasn't buying her act...

Sometimes when I'm watching 'Mad Men', I'm reminded of Korea.

[Xuanzang]

[anamika]