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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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 Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:02 am Post subject: Texas executes yet another innocent man |
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Gov. G.W. Bush presided over more executions than any governor in modern history.
DNA testing undermines evidence used to convict Texas man, Observer says
By Jason Embry | Friday, November 12, 2010, 07:15 AM
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| We begin this morning with a rather remarkable story from Dave Mann at the Texas Observer: �Claude Jones always claimed that he wasn�t the man who walked into an East Texas liquor store in 1989 and shot the owner. � His murder conviction was based on a single piece of forensic evidence recovered from the crime scene�a strand of hair�that prosecutors claimed belonged to Jones. But DNA tests completed this week at the request of the Observer and the New York-based Innocence Project show the hair didn�t belong to Jones after all. The day before his death in December 2000, Jones asked for a stay of execution so the strand of hair could be submitted for DNA testing. He was denied by then-Gov. George W. Bush. A decade later, the results of DNA testing not only undermine the evidence that convicted Jones, but raise the possibility that Texas executed an innocent man.� |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: Texas executes yet another innocent man |
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| Space Bar wrote: |
Gov. G.W. Bush presided over more executions than any governor in modern history.
DNA testing undermines evidence used to convict Texas man, Observer says
By Jason Embry | Friday, November 12, 2010, 07:15 AM
| Quote: |
| We begin this morning with a rather remarkable story from Dave Mann at the Texas Observer: �Claude Jones always claimed that he wasn�t the man who walked into an East Texas liquor store in 1989 and shot the owner. � His murder conviction was based on a single piece of forensic evidence recovered from the crime scene�a strand of hair�that prosecutors claimed belonged to Jones. But DNA tests completed this week at the request of the Observer and the New York-based Innocence Project show the hair didn�t belong to Jones after all. The day before his death in December 2000, Jones asked for a stay of execution so the strand of hair could be submitted for DNA testing. He was denied by then-Gov. George W. Bush. A decade later, the results of DNA testing not only undermine the evidence that convicted Jones, but raise the possibility that Texas executed an innocent man.� |
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...this is tragic in its own right.
...but as far as shedding any light on G.W. Bush...it seems all too obvious he cares little for the rights and lives of others. |
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imoscardotcom
Joined: 01 Sep 2010
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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I found especially interesting the part about how the testimony of various witnesses shifted over time after the authorities had more or less decided he was guilty. The apathy displayed by the members of the Board of Pardons and Paroles also made me feel a bit sick to my stomach. That's the same kind of apathy that allows Americans to tolerate our soldiers going abroad and murdering innocent natives. It's disgusting, but common-place.
We're constantly reminded of how fallible human judgment is, and we're constantly reminded that prosecutors (and their experts and witnesses) often behave in unethical fashions in their attempts to convict criminals. How anyone can persist in supporting the death penalty is beyond me. Unjustly incarcerating a human who isn't a threat to anyone is bad enough; needlessly ending their lives is just ridiculous. It doesn't even serve as an effective deterrent, as is evinced by the fact that the states with the highest murder rates are invariably states with the death penalty, not those without it. |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:41 pm Post subject: Re: Texas executes yet another innocent man |
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| Space Bar wrote: |
| A decade later, the results of DNA testing not only undermine the evidence that convicted Jones, but raise the possibility that Texas executed an innocent man. |
And by "raise the possibility" I think they meant "makes it blazingly obvious that Texas executed an innocent man."
Personally, I'm all for having violent, public executions.
#1 People who live in pro-death states should be completely aware of what they are allowing their government to do.
#2 It shouldn't be any of this clinical, needle-style bullshit. Death is horrific and trying to clean it up like you're euthanizing the family dog is just copping out to the fact that you're killing someone.
#3 There's no deterrent value to potential criminals unless #1 and #2 are happening anyway. I doubt that the deterrent value would be very high, but it's zero (or negative) now.
I mean, if someone on Death Row somehow managed to find a gun and kill themselves live on the internet, would people be appalled? Would they be thankful he saved the taxpayers a little money? Would they think it was horrible and not want to watch, even though that's the fate they had decided for him?
People's views on death in America are even more screwed up and repressed than their views on sex. |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:11 am Post subject: Re: Texas executes yet another innocent man |
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| comm wrote: |
| Space Bar wrote: |
| A decade later, the results of DNA testing not only undermine the evidence that convicted Jones, but raise the possibility that Texas executed an innocent man. |
And by "raise the possibility" I think they meant "makes it blazingly obvious that Texas executed an innocent man."
Personally, I'm all for having violent, public executions.
#1 People who live in pro-death states should be completely aware of what they are allowing their government to do.
#2 It shouldn't be any of this clinical, needle-style bullshit. Death is horrific and trying to clean it up like you're euthanizing the family dog is just copping out to the fact that you're killing someone.
#3 There's no deterrent value to potential criminals unless #1 and #2 are happening anyway. I doubt that the deterrent value would be very high, but it's zero (or negative) now.
I mean, if someone on Death Row somehow managed to find a gun and kill themselves live on the internet, would people be appalled? Would they be thankful he saved the taxpayers a little money? Would they think it was horrible and not want to watch, even though that's the fate they had decided for him?
People's views on death in America are even more screwed up and repressed than their views on sex. |
I don't think that view is in scope with modern day feelings about justice and the death penalty.
Although it's not uncommon to find your views in the US, the majority in the US would like to get rid of the death penalty if life in prison was meted out for 1st degree murder across the board.
Is there anybody in here from Europe who would like to see violent deaths for convicted murderers? I don't think that idea is compatible with civilization anymore, at least not in the most developed countries like Europe. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 4:14 am Post subject: Re: Texas executes yet another innocent man |
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| Space Bar wrote: |
| Gov. G.W. Bush presided over more executions than any governor in modern history. |
While I'm not fond of the man and I'm 100% against capital punishment, I'd think you'd bone up a tad on the issue before tossing out that grenade obviously trying to make the man look like a cold-blooded murderer. Here is some interesting reading about capital punishment in Texas. Of note is this bit regarding the state governor's authority to commute or pardon someone:
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In addition, a defendant may also appeal to the Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles (a division of the Texas Department of Criminal Justice) for commutation of the sentence.
The Board, after hearing testimony, decides whether or not to recommend commutation to the Governor of Texas. The Governor can accept or reject a positive recommendation of commutation, but has no power to override a negative recommendation (this power was taken away after Governor James Ferguson was accused of trading pardons for political contributions). The only unilateral action which the Governor can take is to grant a one-time, 30-day reprieve to the defendant. |
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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:52 am Post subject: Re: Texas executes yet another innocent man |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| Space Bar wrote: |
| Gov. G.W. Bush presided over more executions than any governor in modern history. |
While I'm not fond of the man and I'm 100% against capital punishment, I'd think you'd bone up a tad on the issue before tossing out that grenade obviously trying to make the man look like a cold-blooded murderer. Here is some interesting reading about capital punishment in Texas. Of note is this bit regarding the state governor's authority to commute or pardon someone:
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In addition, a defendant may also appeal to the Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles (a division of the Texas Department of Criminal Justice) for commutation of the sentence.
The Board, after hearing testimony, decides whether or not to recommend commutation to the Governor of Texas. The Governor can accept or reject a positive recommendation of commutation, but has no power to override a negative recommendation (this power was taken away after Governor James Ferguson was accused of trading pardons for political contributions). The only unilateral action which the Governor can take is to grant a one-time, 30-day reprieve to the defendant. |
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Good point, CC, thanks for that. Apparently then, Bush refused to give that one-time 30-day reprieve for Jones to get the hair tested. That is still cold-blooded. |
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Jeonmunka
Joined: 05 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| #2 It shouldn't be any of this clinical, needle-style bullshit. Death is horrific and trying to clean it up like you're euthanizing the family dog is just copping out to the fact that you're killing someone. |
Once someone muders another innocent person s/he is no longer part of the human race, in my mind. |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:04 am Post subject: Re: Texas executes yet another innocent man |
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| young_clinton wrote: |
I don't think that view is in scope with modern day feelings about justice and the death penalty.
Although it's not uncommon to find your views in the US, the majority in the US would like to get rid of the death penalty if life in prison was meted out for 1st degree murder across the board.
Is there anybody in here from Europe who would like to see violent deaths for convicted murderers? I don't think that idea is compatible with civilization anymore, at least not in the most developed countries like Europe. |
I think you missed my point. I'm leaning away from capital punishment. However, the people who support executions in the US should be forced to see the results of their beliefs. And it shouldn't be the candy-coated, behind closed doors, needle-while-you-sleep bullshit they have now. It should be as raw and horrific as death inherently is.
Having executions that are like private euthanasia of violent dogs are the worst of all possibilities. No one is deterred from violent crime if they never see executions, and no one who supports executions will ever change their view unless the horror of the situation is in their faces. |
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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:58 am Post subject: |
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| Jeonmunka wrote: |
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| #2 It shouldn't be any of this clinical, needle-style bullshit. Death is horrific and trying to clean it up like you're euthanizing the family dog is just copping out to the fact that you're killing someone. |
Once someone muders another innocent person s/he is no longer part of the human race, in my mind. |
So if I kill an intruder into my home there to rape and kill my wife and kids, I am no longer a member of the human race? |
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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:07 am Post subject: |
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| From the word "innocent," I don't think he was talking about self defense. |
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