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who's to blame for all this mess?
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bossface



Joined: 05 Aug 2006

PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:53 pm    Post subject: who's to blame for all this mess? Reply with quote

in my opinion, Syngman Rhee. he could have changed the course of history after the Koren War. he could have recognized what a horrible idea it is to have a nation's capital and population center a stone's throw away from an unfriendly border. no other country in the world has such an important city in the shadow of such danger. Syngman Rhee should have moved the capital to Busan.

had Busan become the capital and primary metropolis, a lot of military logistics would have changed. if Seoul had morphed into a provincial backwater, NK's artillery would have been a much smaller threat, in fact it may have never existed at all if Seoul weren't important enough to destroy. If the North didn't hold the Seoul destruction trump card that it now holds, it would have never become the geopolitical menace that it is today.

on a lesser note, if Busan were Korea's cultural, musical, entertainment, political, and financial center as a result of becoming the capital in 1954, it would have been considered one of the world's great cities. imagine having Itaewon, Hongdae, Gangnam, Daehangno, Myeongdong, Yeouido, and ICN within a 20-30 subway ride of the beach. a Busan like that could have competed with the likes of Tokyo and Bangkok for international travel.

woulda coulda shoulda, i suppose this sort of argument doesn't matter much now.
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silkhighway



Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good point about what Busan could have been. However for the longest time neither the South nor North reckonized the other's right to sovereignty. I'm not sure they still do. Seoul is in the middle of Korea, so as a capital of a unified Korea it makes sense. I imagine nobody in 1945 would have thought the country would be divided and in a warlike stance for at least another 65 years. After all they are one people, one nation, or so they would have believed.
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redaxe



Joined: 01 Dec 2008

PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, if you really wanna get down to the root of it, it's Lenin's fault.
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bobbybigfoot



Joined: 05 May 2007
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting ideas, Op.
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jvalmer



Joined: 06 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't just move a capital. Seoul was the capital well before the war and both side did all they can to hold onto Seoul.
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BoholDiver



Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hindsight is 20/20.

Seoul was Hansung before that time and it was the largest urban centre of thecountry south of the 38th. It seemed natural it would become the capital.
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silkhighway



Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jvalmer wrote:
Can't just move a capital. Seoul was the capital well before the war and both side did all they can to hold onto Seoul.


6 or 7 years ago Noh Mu-Hyun tried to move the capital to Daejeon (I think). There was a lot of hostility towards the move and ultimately it failed a court challenge.
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jvalmer



Joined: 06 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

silkhighway wrote:
jvalmer wrote:
Can't just move a capital. Seoul was the capital well before the war and both side did all they can to hold onto Seoul.

6 or 7 years ago Noh Mu-Hyun tried to move the capital to Daejeon (I think). There was a lot of hostility towards the move and ultimately it failed a court challenge.

Capitals in old world countries hold a lot of symbolic value. I don't think it would have of mattered even if they made Busan the capital, Seoul would've continued to be the country's most important city and would still have a massive population.
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wylies99



Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!

PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jvalmer wrote:
silkhighway wrote:
jvalmer wrote:
Can't just move a capital. Seoul was the capital well before the war and both side did all they can to hold onto Seoul.

6 or 7 years ago Noh Mu-Hyun tried to move the capital to Daejeon (I think). There was a lot of hostility towards the move and ultimately it failed a court challenge.

Capitals in old world countries hold a lot of symbolic value. I don't think it would have of mattered even if they made Busan the capital, Seoul would've continued to be the country's most important city and would still have a massive population.


True. It's all about history and location. Plus, Seoul is in a key strategic point in the center of the peninsula with control of the key rivers.
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jzrossef



Joined: 05 Nov 2010

PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jvalmer wrote:
silkhighway wrote:
jvalmer wrote:
Can't just move a capital. Seoul was the capital well before the war and both side did all they can to hold onto Seoul.

6 or 7 years ago Noh Mu-Hyun tried to move the capital to Daejeon (I think). There was a lot of hostility towards the move and ultimately it failed a court challenge.

Capitals in old world countries hold a lot of symbolic value. I don't think it would have of mattered even if they made Busan the capital, Seoul would've continued to be the country's most important city and would still have a massive population.


I heard that a lot of Seoulites were ticked off by that idea cause their properties would lose their values that way.
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lifeinkorea



Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Location: somewhere in China

PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Busan were Seoul, you would have the same thing but in the south. I would prefer seeing a "4 corners" approach (Seoul Incheon, Gangwon?, Gwangju, and Busan) with a central hub band consisting of Daejeon and Daegu. Spread the wealth. Packing everything into Seoul or Busan, yuck, pooey, throw it out the window.

Last edited by lifeinkorea on Sat Nov 27, 2010 7:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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northway



Joined: 05 Jul 2010

PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lifeinkorea wrote:
If Busan were Seoul, you would have the same thing but in the south. I would prefer seeing a "4 corners" approach (Seoul Incheon, Gangwon?, Gwangju, and Busan) with a central hub band consisting of Daejeon and Daegu. Spread the wealth. Packing everything into Seoul or Busan, yuck, pooey, through it out the window.


The megacity is typical of developing countries though (which Korea was while Seoul was becoming ginormous). Bangkok, Jakarta, Manila, Saigon, Taipei, Lagos, Mexico City, etc. All of these cities are preponderant, and not just because they're capitals.
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redaxe



Joined: 01 Dec 2008

PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well in some countries, it doesn't matter that much if you move the capital. The US has had like nine or ten different capitals in its short history.

But in Korea, the businesses and government are so interconnected (oftentimes in corrupt and unethical ways) that Seoul is not only the political capital but also the economic, educational, and cultural capital of the country. All the major businesses, government organizations, universities, etc. are headquartered in Seoul. About 50% of South Koreans live in Seoul or Gyeonggi-do. So it would be a BFD if they decided to move the capital.

A lot of countries have actually moved their capital far inland and basically constructed a new city from scratch for that specific purpose, to either discourage corruption, improve security, or help populate and develop an underdeveloped interior area. Brasilia would be a good example.
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redaxe



Joined: 01 Dec 2008

PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

northway wrote:
lifeinkorea wrote:
If Busan were Seoul, you would have the same thing but in the south. I would prefer seeing a "4 corners" approach (Seoul Incheon, Gangwon?, Gwangju, and Busan) with a central hub band consisting of Daejeon and Daegu. Spread the wealth. Packing everything into Seoul or Busan, yuck, pooey, through it out the window.


The megacity is typical of developing countries though (which Korea was while Seoul was becoming ginormous). Bangkok, Jakarta, Manila, Saigon, Taipei, Lagos, Mexico City, etc. All of these cities are preponderant, and not just because they're capitals.


This is largely due to the corruption typical of developing countries economies. The business leaders want to be close to the political leaders to make it easier to bribe them, and all the money and other resources get concentrated in that one city.

Corruption is still a problem in Korea, although the ethics situation is improving these days--back in the '70s and '80s it was unbelievably corrupt...
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mc_jc



Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I

PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right now, it is the Chinese Politburo who is truly to blame.
They are refusing to reign in their ally in the north.

There is a lot of news reports where the Chinese are denying any influence over the North Koreans, but many of the main military trainers in North Korea are in fact CPLA soldiers and a lot of its modern equipment comes from China- North Korean rockets are made from Chinese components and built according to Chinese design.
Most of North Korea's natural gas and oil comes from China as well as many of the western luxury items used to reward ranking North Korean officials, are filtered into North Korea from both Macau and Hong Kong.

However, the US and Korea are also at fault as well. As I mentioned in another post- US, Korean and other aid provided from western NGOs have been diverted from the population to feed its 1.2 mln-strong military.

Also, a piece of irony- the Iran Millat bank that is situated downtown also has accounts from its North Korean clients, mostly from shell companies that do arms and technological sales in the middle east and southeast Asia. So, Korea is also at fault for allowing this bank to remain open even though it provides hard currency to the very people looking to destroy them.
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