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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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 Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:20 am Post subject: Incest: Freud was wrong |
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At a talk given yesterday at the University of Copenhagen, Researcher Paul John Frandsen expounded upon his research showing that the incest taboo is not universal.
The entire presentation is on YouTube, but unfortunately only the introduction (about 4 minutes) is in English.
Frandsen, Paul John:
Incestuous and Close-Kin Marriage in Ancient Egypt and Persia.
An Examination of the Evidence
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| This book restricts its examination to the sources for incestuous relationships between members of non-royal nuclear families and puts forth arguments against the generally held axiom that the prohibition of incest is a universal phenomenon. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Incest also really isn't that big of a deal when practiced sparringly. It would take generations of incest to start having serious, reliable defects start popping up. |
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RufusW
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Doesn't a kid from an incestuous relationship have quite a high probability of defects though? |
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kabrams
Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Location: your Dad's house
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| WTF I wish I could read the thing... |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| RufusW wrote: |
| Doesn't a kid from an incestuous relationship have quite a high probability of defects though? |
I read somewhere that the rate isn't particularly high in the first generation (for some reason the number 10% comes to mind) but gets higher with each successive generation. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| the incest taboo is not universal |
It's not taboo with me. What others do in the privacy of their homes is none of my concern.
That we, Westerners, are even having this discussion speaks volumes. Incest and what ever its effects to offspring or generations of offspring is taboo in our societies due to the proliferation of overgrown governments (and Judeo-Christian morality) concerned with every phase of our private lives.
I'm sure that there are increased risks, but:
* if two sibblings are in love and are convinced that a sexual relationship would enhance their lives, the opinions of third parties are of no importance at all
* sibbling-lovers are just as capable of using contraception as the rest of us
* criminalizing sexual intercourse is an empirically unsound and disproportionate response to increased risk
* increased risk to offspring sets an uncomfortable precedent, for there are many circumstances besides incest where genetic disorders will be passed on (if we looked closely enough at individuals' backgrounds, very few people would be permitted to have sex)
* Forced marriages to close relatives, however, are obviously very different |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| kabrams wrote: |
| WTF I wish I could read the thing... |
The book is in English and available on Amazon. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:58 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Incest and what ever its effects to offspring or generations of offspring is taboo in our societies due to the proliferation of overgrown governments (and Judeo-Christian morality) concerned with every phase of our private lives.
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Over-reaction to everything is not necessary.
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* sibbling-lovers are just as capable of using contraception as the rest of us
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Why is incest identified as siblings? It can be parent/child or can even be relations between cousins, second cousins, third cousins...it depends on how the society defines incest. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| kabrams wrote: |
| WTF I wish I could read the thing... |
Read the first 24 pages at http://www.mtp.hum.ku.dk/rwfolder/elnppage/201060.pdf.
| Quote: |
| Why is incest identified as siblings? It can be parent/child or can even be relations between cousins, second cousins, third cousins...it depends on how the society defines incest. |
The presentation and book deal with nuclear family incest among non-royalty only. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:58 am Post subject: |
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9 years? Jesus. I wouldn't even give her 9 weeks. |
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recessiontime
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
9 years? Jesus. I wouldn't even give her 9 weeks. |
had it been the other way around, a 14 yr old girl with her 36yr old father, you might say different? |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| The sentence is excessive. I'm not condoning the act. If a 36 year old dad slept with his 14 year old daughter, 9 years in prison would likewise be very excessive in my judgement. But certainly, it does seem worse when men do it, though for decidedly rational, commonsensical reasons rather than some irrational double standard: when men sleep with young women, there's always the strong possibility of rape, whereas with older women sleeping with younger males the possibility of rape is substantially more remote. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| The total lack of self-control and sense required to cheat on your husband with an underaged boy you knew to be your son, despite the potential impact it could have on the lives of both you and your family seems indicative to me of a total lack of the qualities required to meet your parental obligations. Things like divorce are hard enough on children; this kind of affair is insanity. |
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chellovek
Joined: 29 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| I know some of you are trying to be all open-minded and libertarian, which is good, but still.....gross. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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Looks like some people will defend anyone and anything. I suppose there is some merit in saying that laws against this sort of thing are overly strict, and that some one needs to defend disgusting amoral people, I'm just glad it's not me. I'm sure that that 14 year old will lead a great life and never have issues from having sex with his mom.  |
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