Korean Job Discussion Forums

[angma]

Removed

[Skipperoo]

I can imagine being called a 'cheat' carries a lot more negativity in a country like Korea than it does back home. Try phrasing it as 'she did not copy anyone elses work' or 'did not get help from her friends' or something instead. Cheat carries with it implications such as dishonesty, lack of integrity etc - 'copying' is a much more neutral and objective term.

[busanliving]

I don't think I would ever talk about kindergarteners as cheating, teaching them not to copy is fine, teach them if they don't understand they should ask you for help and not copy someoen elses answer. cheating implies a deliberate act, kids of that age just want to get the answers on paper, hopefully the right answers so that their teacher won't be upset with them.

[northway]

I don't think you did anything wrong, but you do need to be careful how you phrase things. I learned from personal experience after writing "messy" once on a page that wasn't even handwriting related (just too much scribbling) and having my Korean teacher having to run interference with her mom for me. With something like that, I'll generally write "Good independent work" or something to that effect. Really though, Korean parents are generally ridiculous and hagwons generally exacerbate this.

[thegadfly]

While I very strongly agree with your sentiment, Angma, I would suggest trying to avoid words with strong negative connotations in either language -- lie, cheat, and steal can have very strong feelings connected to them, and some parents may (rightly, in my opinion) object to those words being used to describe the actions of kindergarten students.

I agree with your employer -- take the word "cheat" out of your vocabulary. It does you no good, and as you can see, can cause harm.

You seem sincere in your desire to teach, and that is commendable (and unfortunately, rare). You've learned a lesson the hard way -- a lesson that folks in teaching for a while all eventually learn. Just because a negative word doesn't bother YOU doesn't mean it is inoffensive.

In my classes, I explain that while it can be a good idea to get help sometimes, for the work I ask of my students, I want them to work completely on their own -- I tell them "no help from your mother, father, brother, sister, classmate, mailman, goldfish, or hamster!" They all laugh about it, but as it is a "rule," they learn to follow it. I also have to train them to understand that there is no penalty for giving a wrong answer, so long as they are trying and doing their best.

A postive phrasing of your rules, expectations, or desired behavior very seldom comes back to bite you, but a negative phrasing can, and often does...for example, even "do not speak Korean in class" has caused problems (in my experience), while "speak only English in class" never has. Same basic premise, same result, much less backlash from sensitive folks.

As much as it stings, if you have the desire to improve, then learn this lesson, and look for ways to get the desired behaviors by use of a positive phrasing. There are other benefits to this as well, in the long run. If your rules or directions are phrased as "do not do X," certain reactive, older students will say to themselves "or else what?" and test you. A positive phrasing makes them be more creative in their rebellion, or else they choose not to rebel...both better outcomes than simple contradictory behavior.


Again, I totally agree with your intent, and I applaud your commitment and willingness to actually try to teach more than just what appears in the book. I do, however, suggest that you should change your approach to these things you wish to instill.

[gossipgirlxoxo]

[interestedinhanguk]

[lifeinkorea]

Sometimes "cheating" is ok. For example, I had students learning verbs one day. While each student was required to choose a verb on their own, I allowed them to copy other words they could use like magazine or book with read.

But if they copied "read" from another student repeatedly after knowing not too, then this would indeed be cheating. Maybe the parents don't like hearing their child isn't a perfect angel, but what is the point in you being in the classroom if all they are going to do is look for some answer key and copy?

I would tell the hagwon owner this and say when you see cheating that is significantly going to prevent them from learning and progressing you will report it.

For your sake, you went behind the hagwon owner's back by reporting this "offense". You communicated with parents instead of going to the hagwon owner. This is why they are upset, it wasn't the comments you made.

If you made them to the hagwon owner first and they ok'd it, then you wouldn't be singled out as the bad person. Live and learn. Continue to teach and be a good teacher, but get the ok first from the owner.

[PatrickGHBusan]

Chalk this up as a lesson learned as you progress as a teacher.

You have to be mindful of the words you use when interacting with students and parents. In a Kindergarten setting you need to realise what level your students are at.

Calling a kindergarten age student a cheater (indirectly or not) is not a good idea. It is not constructive or conducive to learning.

Did you do something wrong?

Yes you did.

How wrong was this?

Not that bad, call it a stumble. Learn, improve and move on.

[yoja]

[PatrickGHBusan]

Good advice in your post yoja.

[willteachforfood]

I totally disagree with most of the comments on this post. This whole system of having to be so sensitive to what the parents think when assessing their children is ridiculous. You can have a kid literally do nothing but pick his nose and drool for the entire class and you're still expected to come up with a positive comment about how he is progressing, even if he hasn't learned a new word all month.

I honestly don't understand why one wouldn't start to teach children that cheating is wrong in Kindergarten....this is EXACTLY the age when we teach children what is right and wrong.

The word "cheat" is NOT too strong, because that is what the kid was doing. Should we not say that the kid was bullying now, too?

"Oh, your son was not-nice-ing some of the other boys, but really he's very kind and loves English."

Come on.

Now...I am not saying that when the parent complained that the right approach would be to get your guard up...the easiest approach would certainly be to just waffle, say you're sorry, and move on....which is what you did. So now...you apologized but the parents won't drop it, and are forming a committee to 'lynch' you....furthermore, your boss doesn't have your back. Personally, I think this is BS.

You did nothing wrong....there was a misunderstanding and you apologized to the father to help him save face....that should have been the end of it.

[angma]

Removed

[nathanrutledge]

I agree somewhat with interestedinhanguk.

Cheating is common here, but they don't call it "cheating." They call it "cunning." Anyone who has ever studied linguistics can tell you that each language is a different way to look at the world. In Korean, there is not this idea of "cheating" like there is in the west, so it doesn't necessarily translate into the exact same idea.

Yoja, you hit this right on the head. Do some quick research into child psychology, you'll see that morals don't play into the minds of a 5 year old, not in the way that they do for older kids. Black and white is all they see, and when you have multiple rights and wrongs, they can only choose one - in this case, pleasing the teacher/helping a friend.

Ditch the word cheating, draw a distinction in YOUR mind between cheating and kids working together because that's what this sounds like to me.

[jonpurdy]

Well, it sounds like a bit of a translation problem. As other posters have pointed out, using slightly different English vocabulary could fix the issue. You've been there for seven years, so tell them exactly what you really meant in Korean.