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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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 Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 4:29 pm Post subject: University Teaching Pros and Cons? |
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From what I hear and understand its the 'easiest' of the teaching jobs (Hogwon v. Public School v. University). The 'pros' are fairly obvious. Less teaching hours, longest vacation of the 3 options, oldest students of the three so presumably more motivated since they are paying for it and want good grades.
However, reading another thread here I didn't know about the students evaluation. Can low or consistently low evualtions result in ones contract not being renewed? Which would be a 'con' that the others don't have. Are there others that I should be aware of?
I assume the pros far outweigh the cons but I would still like to know all the cons so I can get a heads up if I get the job. |
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Draz
Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Location: Land of Morning Clam
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| Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: University Teaching Pros and Cons? |
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| sirius black wrote: |
| oldest students of the three so presumably more motivated since they are paying for it and want good grades. |
LOL! No. You have found your first con. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:47 pm Post subject: Re: University Teaching Pros and Cons? |
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| sirius black wrote: |
From what I hear and understand its the 'easiest' of the teaching jobs (Hogwon v. Public School v. University). The 'pros' are fairly obvious. Less teaching hours, longest vacation of the 3 options, oldest students of the three so presumably more motivated since they are paying for it and want good grades.
However, reading another thread here I didn't know about the students evaluation. Can low or consistently low evaluations result in ones contract not being renewed? Which would be a 'con' that the others don't have. Are there others that I should be aware of?
I assume the pros far outweigh the cons but I would still like to know all the cons so I can get a heads up if I get the job. |
pros:
=Longer vacations (but not always - often you can end up with "camps" if you are the low man on the totem pole (only a BA + experience))
=better pay per class hour
=low class loads
cons:
=LOWer gross pay (unless you have a PhD or MA + loads of experience)
Your average hagwan teacher makes more in a month.
(typical is 12-16 classes but only 1.8m KRW and no housing or airfare).
=students are NOT more motivated.
=lots of extra pre/post class work (prep, marking, etc).
=Unless you qualify for an E1 you are faced with the same visa hassles as a hagwan teacher.
I'll take the desk warming and assurances of a PS over a hagwan or uni position any day (and I have worked at all 3).
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nathanrutledge
Joined: 01 May 2008
Location: Marakesh
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| Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: University Teaching Pros and Cons? |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
I'll take the desk warming and assurances of a PS over a hagwan or uni position any day (and I have worked at all 3).
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I'd say there are a lot of individual factors to look at.
I've worked at a couple of different public schools and comparing the last two, it's like night and day. Sure, my last co teacher and I butted heads on a few things, but overall we got along, the students were good, the other teachers were great, the principal and vp were always nice and helpful, we had a huge budget that got me anything and everything I ever asked for. It was a paradise.
Now, I'm at a school where there is zero budget, my coworkers never talk to me about things until the last minute (even more so than the average Korean co worker), my students bring deadly snakes to school (search my posts for that story, if you're interested), I was denied the use of my vacation in a single lump so I could take a CELTA course (I have to do the winter camp, which starts today, which as 2 students in it), etc......
It really comes down to the person and the school. I personally would rather put up with the hassles and headaches that a university provides than the hassles and headaches that my PS job provides, at least at this point in my career. |
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Epik_Teacher
Joined: 28 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: University Teaching Pros and Cons? |
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| nathanrutledge wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
I'll take the desk warming and assurances of a PS over a hagwan or uni position any day (and I have worked at all 3).
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I'd say there are a lot of individual factors to look at.
Now, I'm at a school where there is zero budget, my coworkers never talk to me about things until the last minute (even more so than the average Korean co worker), my students bring deadly snakes to school (search my posts for that story, if you're interested), I was denied the use of my vacation in a single lump so I could take a CELTA course (I have to do the winter camp, which starts today, which as 2 students in it), etc......
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The same thing nearly happened to me. I didn't take vacation last summer so I would have time to do the CELTA. Late November, they wanted me to teach a winter camp with about 5 students. Fortunately, I had already talked to the principal in September about doing it, and was OK-ed to go.
The VP still raised hell about it, tho. I could have gone to Thailand or China, but am rather "Asia-ed out." I decided to go to Spain instead, as I've never been to Europe. It's costing me a bit more than $1.3k more to go to Spain than to stay in Asia, but it's a working vacation. I leave Saturday and have been chomping the bit for weeks!
I REALLY need a break from Korea! |
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nathanrutledge
Joined: 01 May 2008
Location: Marakesh
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| Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 7:27 pm Post subject: Re: University Teaching Pros and Cons? |
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| Epik_Teacher wrote: |
| nathanrutledge wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
I'll take the desk warming and assurances of a PS over a hagwan or uni position any day (and I have worked at all 3).
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I'd say there are a lot of individual factors to look at.
Now, I'm at a school where there is zero budget, my coworkers never talk to me about things until the last minute (even more so than the average Korean co worker), my students bring deadly snakes to school (search my posts for that story, if you're interested), I was denied the use of my vacation in a single lump so I could take a CELTA course (I have to do the winter camp, which starts today, which as 2 students in it), etc......
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The same thing nearly happened to me. I didn't take vacation last summer so I would have time to do the CELTA. Late November, they wanted me to teach a winter camp with about 5 students. Fortunately, I had already talked to the principal in September about doing it, and was OK-ed to go.
The VP still raised hell about it, tho. I could have gone to Thailand or China, but am rather "Asia-ed out." I decided to go to Spain instead, as I've never been to Europe. It's costing me a bit more than $1.3k more to go to Spain than to stay in Asia, but it's a working vacation. I leave Saturday and have been chomping the bit for weeks!
I REALLY need a break from Korea! |
You lucky sonuvva......
On the plus side, I am glad that I'm not doing it. I've been accepted to a M.A. program, so I'm going to spend my money on that, and next year I'm going to go to Vietnam to do the CELTA and then spend a week biking across 'nam. So I'm glad it didn't work out this year, I'll be able to wrap it up with a vacation and make it seem a lot cheaper. Have a great time in Spain! |
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Epik_Teacher
Joined: 28 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 7:37 pm Post subject: Re: University Teaching Pros and Cons? |
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| nathanrutledge wrote: |
| Epik_Teacher wrote: |
| nathanrutledge wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
I'll take the desk warming and assurances of a PS over a hagwan or uni position any day (and I have worked at all 3).
. |
I'd say there are a lot of individual factors to look at.
Now, I'm at a school where there is zero budget, my coworkers never talk to me about things until the last minute (even more so than the average Korean co worker), my students bring deadly snakes to school (search my posts for that story, if you're interested), I was denied the use of my vacation in a single lump so I could take a CELTA course (I have to do the winter camp, which starts today, which as 2 students in it), etc......
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The same thing nearly happened to me. I didn't take vacation last summer so I would have time to do the CELTA. Late November, they wanted me to teach a winter camp with about 5 students. Fortunately, I had already talked to the principal in September about doing it, and was OK-ed to go.
The VP still raised hell about it, tho. I could have gone to Thailand or China, but am rather "Asia-ed out." I decided to go to Spain instead, as I've never been to Europe. It's costing me a bit more than $1.3k more to go to Spain than to stay in Asia, but it's a working vacation. I leave Saturday and have been chomping the bit for weeks!
I REALLY need a break from Korea! |
You lucky sonuvva......
On the plus side, I am glad that I'm not doing it. I've been accepted to a M.A. program, so I'm going to spend my money on that, and next year I'm going to go to Vietnam to do the CELTA and then spend a week biking across 'nam. So I'm glad it didn't work out this year, I'll be able to wrap it up with a vacation and make it seem a lot cheaper. Have a great time in Spain! |
I have an MS Ed in Online Curriculum Design, I'm not interested in another Masters. I want to get into online teaching as well as Teacher Training, my main goal is the DELTA. I have 15 years experience in ESL, and the CELTA is the entry level cert.
But I haven't been on the student side of the classroom and would probably not be able to do the DELTA without doing CELTA, so I'm off to do it. I plan to do the DELTA as soon as possible as I can afterwards. Even if it's a 2 month in house course. Korea is a dead end and I am moving on from here! |
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sigmundsmith
Joined: 22 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 12:04 am Post subject: Re: University Teaching Pros and Cons? |
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[quote="ttompatz"]
| sirius black wrote: |
I'll take the desk warming and assurances of a PS over a hagwan or uni position any day (and I have worked at all 3).
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Each to their own but I have done all three as well. I am now at my second University gig. (1 year hagwon, 3 years public school, 1 1/2 years University).
Hagwon was not a great experience - some are some aren't - teaching 30 hours a week, 10 days vacation, and paid flights. Public school I worked at was great - good staff, pay was ok, 4 weeks vacation (extra 2 weeks for re-signing, and flights each year). First university job my pay went down quite a lot but I was outside of Seoul, in the country side. 16 hours a week and Fridays off so didn't have the desk warming and left after I taught. Now back in Seoul, and on 3 mill a month 2 1/2 months vacation, 15 hours a week, no flights and the same as above.
The difference between the three is all based on conditions. Hagwon for me was a joke as I was treated as a dummy recorder type person. And whatever I wanted to expand on I was restricted in doing so. THe notion that the Korean way is the right way.
The public school was a good gig but the concept of co-teaching novelty lost interest for me. At many times I didn't feel like a real educator. Just part of the facade of having a native speaker at the school. But I was respected for my abilities. But it just wasn't right for me.
Now university. I feel more personal power in regards to what I teach and how I teach. I make the calls about students and grades. They follow my rules not some school policy. That is, if they are rude or sleep or don't listen they are out. This is not applied in hagwon or public school. I feel that I am a part of the students education. Of course there are some students that are never motivated to learn English, or any other language but as an educator there are still ways to have them participate that gets them to communicate at some level.
All jobs are different and similar. None are an easy ride, if people think teaching is an easy gig then they aren't doing it correctly.
As a professional, I prefer university teaching over other. Many (if not most) students listen to me. Of course it is not perfect. But hey, this is Korea, we have to do the best considering the circumstances we work in.
In the other areas it was an uphill battle sometimes battling the will of the students, and the schools as to how things should be done.
My personal time is greater, my pay is greater, my holidays are greater. So, I take my position over others.
But like I said, each to their own. |
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languistic
Joined: 25 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:30 am Post subject: Re: University Teaching Pros and Cons? |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
| sirius black wrote: |
From what I hear and understand its the 'easiest' of the teaching jobs (Hogwon v. Public School v. University). The 'pros' are fairly obvious. Less teaching hours, longest vacation of the 3 options, oldest students of the three so presumably more motivated since they are paying for it and want good grades.
However, reading another thread here I didn't know about the students evaluation. Can low or consistently low evaluations result in ones contract not being renewed? Which would be a 'con' that the others don't have. Are there others that I should be aware of?
I assume the pros far outweigh the cons but I would still like to know all the cons so I can get a heads up if I get the job. |
pros:
=Longer vacations (but not always - often you can end up with "camps" if you are the low man on the totem pole (only a BA + experience))
=better pay per class hour
=low class loads
cons:
=LOWer gross pay (unless you have a PhD or MA + loads of experience)
Your average hagwan teacher makes more in a month.
(typical is 12-16 classes but only 1.8m KRW and no housing or airfare).
=students are NOT more motivated.
=lots of extra pre/post class work (prep, marking, etc).
=Unless you qualify for an E1 you are faced with the same visa hassles as a hagwan teacher.
I'll take the desk warming and assurances of a PS over a hagwan or uni position any day (and I have worked at all 3).
. |
While normally you are pretty accurate in your posts, this one is not only wrong, but smells a bit sour. It may be true in some scenarios, but not so with the majority, particularly at the upper tier unis.
The only truth is about the E2 stuff.
The pay (1.8?! Wouldn't get out of bed for it), motivation level of students (haggie kids are really motivated?! Har!), housing allowance (right, not often a freebie, unless you take a dorm, which are better than most one-rooms and sure close to school!) and prep (like any teacher shouldn't be doing loads of prep! The level of institution should have no bearing on a teacher's work ethic) and grading time (at least I can measure and see growth; haggies are just a cash treadmill with pseudo- academic objectives / goals)...all better or I wouldn't stay where I am.
The virtues of uni jobs have been extrapolated upon endlessly on these boards; anyone who doesn't realize that they are among the best jobs in Korean EFL is simply uninformed or in denial.
I would never, ever go back to a hagwon and there isn't a day that goes by that I am not thankful to be where I am. |
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Kurtz
Joined: 05 Jan 2007
Location: ples bilong me
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:42 am Post subject: |
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| How many university profs are making a wage high enough that they don't have to work a second job? |
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dongjak
Joined: 30 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:47 am Post subject: |
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| How many university profs are making a wage high enough that they don't have to work a second job? |
I don't know what you would consider to be a high wage but I make 3 million a month plus a low housing stipend. I work 15 hours a week and get 5 months paid vacation. I work part-time jobs because my school gives me permission, i have the time and the extra cash is nice. Plus sometimes I miss teaching kids. It allows me to do both.
I'm not sure what Universities offer 1.8 million a month, I have never heard of anything lower than 2.1. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Home sweet home
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:41 am Post subject: |
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Some cons:
Student evals are what 99.99% of your renewal is based on. Students will use evals to get revenge for low grades.
Meetings every once in a while.
Office hours
Admin, but that's pretty much everywhere.
I've seend adverts for 1.8 at natl unis. Pay and benefits seem to be going down drastically.
Though I'd beg to differ about the lower gross wage. I think most of us at uni are paid a base and then have extra hours, plus bonuses, vacation work, proof-reading, curicculum writing. It adds up. My uni's base pay is nearly double (40 mil) what you'd make at a hagwon, for a quarter of the teaching hours: 15 per week and 20 weeks off. BASE salary, not including the extra classes, vacation work, etc. Did I mention the 5 months vacay 
I've worked at a PS and this uni. Unis are easier. I prepare two PPTs a week and teach the class 6 times. Sure, there's grading, but it's up to the teacher as to how much. I can make a final exam 10 pages of essays or I can make it 1 page of multiple choice. Guess what I do? Students are more motivated as well and classes are smaller. I have a max of 20. And in my convo class have had 1 and sometimes no students show up. Still get paid though even if no one shows up for weeks at a time.
I'm completely in charge of what I teach and how. We have guidelines to follow, since as a minimum number of assignments and exams, but other than that, it's all fair game. I like the freedom and trust that I have.
Plus, on a personal level, I think it looks better to teach at a university than a PS. Just my opinion, I'm sure peopel would disagree, but that's just me. If peopel prefer PS jobs, than all the better for me!
I guess for me, what's good is that I'm not teaching conversation or grammar, but subject credit courses. I DO have one convo class, but that's an extra class, so for extra pay, I'll do it.
| Kurtz wrote: |
| How many university profs are making a wage high enough that they don't have to work a second job? |
Me too. I prefer to spend the time studying for a second MA and with my husband, who has the luxury of not being able to work. So not only do I support myself, and my husband, but also pay for my MA and his BA, and we still have money leftover to travel twice a year. Not too shabby! |
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languistic
Joined: 25 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:12 am Post subject: |
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| Kurtz wrote: |
| How many university profs are making a wage high enough that they don't have to work a second job? |
Don't have to, but may as well with the free time. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Home sweet home
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:16 am Post subject: |
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| languistic wrote: |
| Kurtz wrote: |
| How many university profs are making a wage high enough that they don't have to work a second job? |
Don't have to, but may as well with the free time. |
Exactly. Do I want to teach 30 hours a week and only have 2 weeks off a year or teach 15 weeks and get 20 weeks off a year? Money's not everything. |
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Tamada
Joined: 02 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:01 am Post subject: |
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This thread is a little inaccurate, because as everyone knows there are great uni jobs, good uni jobs, ok uni jobs and finally unigwons.
Pros (for me)
-Work only 3 days a week.
-Turn up 1 minute before first class and go home as soon as I am done with my final class.
-No interference from (my) admin or boss.
-Total freedom as to how I teach and lots of flexibiility to adapt the curriculum.
-Having to only prep for 2 lessons per week.
-Excellent overtime pay.
-5.5 Months paid vacation.
-E1 visa
Cons
Students not knowing the difference between earning a good grade and being given a good rade.
At my uni it seems that the student evals are not so important (even though mine have always been good), as I've had my contract renewed before the students evaluated me.
Sorry guys, but a good or even ok uni job generally blows away any PS or Hagwon job. I would rather take a lower tier uni job just to get my foot in the door, than work at a decent PS or Hagwon job. Each to their own though. 
Last edited by Tamada on Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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