|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
jst
Joined: 14 Feb 2010
|
 Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:19 pm Post subject: Elementary School <-> Middle School. Big difference? |
 |
|
| Is there much of a difference between teaching at a public elementary school and a public middle school? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
tanklor1
Joined: 13 Jun 2006
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The biggest difference is that elementary is normally active while Middle school is normally passive.
With that said some of my favourite classes are from middle school because if you get the right mixture of intelligence and enthusiasm it can make an awesome class. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jst
Joined: 14 Feb 2010
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| tanklor1 wrote: |
The biggest difference is that elementary is normally active while Middle school is normally passive.
With that said some of my favourite classes are from middle school because if you get the right mixture of intelligence and enthusiasm it can make an awesome class. |
Active elementary students seems to be enjoyable, and easily engagable.
How do you engage passive middle school students? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tanklor1
Joined: 13 Jun 2006
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jst wrote: |
| tanklor1 wrote: |
The biggest difference is that elementary is normally active while Middle school is normally passive.
With that said some of my favourite classes are from middle school because if you get the right mixture of intelligence and enthusiasm it can make an awesome class. |
Active elementary students seems to be enjoyable, and easily engagable.
How do you engage passive middle school students? |
You've got to realize that these kids are being studied to death. They are forced to deal with classes taught by people who, for the most part, don't really know what they're doing. (I was there once.)
There is no one real key to solve each individual class. Each class is going to have a different feel.
As far engaging them it depends on a few things: your school's goals, the text that you're working with, the time that you have to work with both the students and the material and your relationship with your co-teachers. (Be they in a hagwon or a public school.)
It isn't about going into a classroom and trying to grab their attention. No one is expecting Robin Williams from Dead Poet Society. The students know why they're there and you know why you're there. It's all about filling those shoes you've been given.
In short:
Teach: Some of it will get through to them.
Help: If a student asks for extra assistance give it to them.
Understand: Both from your students and your co-workers viewpoint. Your co-teachers are the ones who feel it if you screw up.
Forget that you're a novelty: you're not going to be the first English Speaker they've seen and you wont be the last.
Many have come here and most have done well. The vast majority of people working here mean well and do a fine job based on the amount of training they receive. So, don't sweat it. You'll find your speed along with the students. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RedKristin
Joined: 27 Jun 2010
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jst wrote: |
| tanklor1 wrote: |
The biggest difference is that elementary is normally active while Middle school is normally passive.
With that said some of my favourite classes are from middle school because if you get the right mixture of intelligence and enthusiasm it can make an awesome class. |
Active elementary students seems to be enjoyable, and easily engagable.
How do you engage passive middle school students? |
Ask their opinions on things.
Middle school students sometimes lack the vocab to express their opinions perfectly but as they're starting to watch the news and become more aware of what's around them (entertainment, science, fashion whatever) they start becoming very opinionated on certain issues. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jst
Joined: 14 Feb 2010
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| tanklor1 wrote: |
| jst wrote: |
| tanklor1 wrote: |
The biggest difference is that elementary is normally active while Middle school is normally passive.
With that said some of my favourite classes are from middle school because if you get the right mixture of intelligence and enthusiasm it can make an awesome class. |
Active elementary students seems to be enjoyable, and easily engagable.
How do you engage passive middle school students? |
You've got to realize that these kids are being studied to death. They are forced to deal with classes taught by people who, for the most part, don't really know what they're doing. (I was there once.)
There is no one real key to solve each individual class. Each class is going to have a different feel.
As far engaging them it depends on a few things: your school's goals, the text that you're working with, the time that you have to work with both the students and the material and your relationship with your co-teachers. (Be they in a hagwon or a public school.)
It isn't about going into a classroom and trying to grab their attention. No one is expecting Robin Williams from Dead Poet Society. The students know why they're there and you know why you're there. It's all about filling those shoes you've been given.
In short:
Teach: Some of it will get through to them.
Help: If a student asks for extra assistance give it to them.
Understand: Both from your students and your co-workers viewpoint. Your co-teachers are the ones who feel it if you screw up.
Forget that you're a novelty: you're not going to be the first English Speaker they've seen and you wont be the last.
Many have come here and most have done well. The vast majority of people working here mean well and do a fine job based on the amount of training they receive. So, don't sweat it. You'll find your speed along with the students. |
Thank you tanklor1. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
chris_J2
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:50 pm Post subject: Elementary -VS- Middle School |
|
|
| The 2 biggest differences I noticed are that elementary school students generally require more time spent on discipline, (their social skills are not yet as developed as those of middle school students), & that middle school students require more time spent on lesson planning as the learning curve is higher for most students than elementary school students. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jst
Joined: 14 Feb 2010
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:02 pm Post subject: Re: Elementary -VS- Middle School |
|
|
| chris_J2 wrote: |
| The 2 biggest differences I noticed are that elementary school students generally require more time spent on discipline, (their social skills are not yet as developed as those of middle school students), & that middle school students require more time spent on lesson planning as the learning curve is higher for most students than elementary school students. |
When you say, "middle school students require more time spent on lesson planning", do you mean spending lots of time planning for an effective class prior to the actual class (i.e. 3 hours of planning and preparation for a lesson plan), or do you mean something else? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
chris_J2
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| When you say, "middle school students require more time spent on lesson planning", do you mean spending lots of time planning for an effective class prior to the actual class (i.e. 3 hours of planning and preparation for a lesson plan), or do you mean something else? |
It means you spend twice as much time on middle school lesson plans, as you do on elementary school lesson plans. At least that was my experience. But less time was spent on discipline in middle school, & dealing with disruptive influences such as those from (some) elementary school students. The other factor was hygiene. My middle school was cleaner than the 2 elementary schools I've taught at. The kids haven't yet learnt basic hygiene. They sneeze everywhere, & tend to leave more mess around & wash their hands less in the bathroom than older students. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Reise-ohne-Ende
Joined: 07 Sep 2009
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I've yet to transfer to my new elementary school, but I can tell you that experiences with middle school clearly differ from person to person. The majority of my middle school classes were nothing BUT discipline (or attempting it anyway). The kids were rude, wild, and completely unable to speak even rudimentary English. This is excluding the majority of first graders, but there were seriously only about two dozen second or third graders (out of ~600) that were kind, helpful, and able/willing to participate in class. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jst
Joined: 14 Feb 2010
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="chris_J2"]
| Quote: |
| When you say, "middle school students require more time spent on lesson planning", do you mean spending lots of time planning for an effective class prior to the actual class (i.e. 3 hours of planning and preparation for a lesson plan), or do you mean something else? |
Thank you chris_J2.
| Reise-ohne-Ende wrote: |
| I've yet to transfer to my new elementary school, but I can tell you that experiences with middle school clearly differ from person to person. The majority of my middle school classes were nothing BUT discipline (or attempting it anyway). The kids were rude, wild, and completely unable to speak even rudimentary English. This is excluding the majority of first graders, but there were seriously only about two dozen second or third graders (out of ~600) that were kind, helpful, and able/willing to participate in class. |
What area are you teaching in? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Reise-ohne-Ende
Joined: 07 Sep 2009
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
| jst wrote: |
| Reise-ohne-Ende wrote: |
| I've yet to transfer to my new elementary school, but I can tell you that experiences with middle school clearly differ from person to person. The majority of my middle school classes were nothing BUT discipline (or attempting it anyway). The kids were rude, wild, and completely unable to speak even rudimentary English. This is excluding the majority of first graders, but there were seriously only about two dozen second or third graders (out of ~600) that were kind, helpful, and able/willing to participate in class. |
What area are you teaching in? |
I don't want to be too specific since I've had privacy issues in the past, but it's a more industrialized/poorer area of Busan. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
toonchoon
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Location: Gangnam
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
middle schoolers are harder to control... they're rude, behave bad, and to be honest, in my experience, not much "teaching" goes on.
if you put the smack down on the elementary school kids at first, they will be good for the rest of the year. be mean your first month, no matter what your instincts tell you to do 
i suggest 2-3-4th graders. they're the best. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
chris_J2
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:43 pm Post subject: E vs M |
|
|
| Quote: |
| middle schoolers are harder to control... they're rude, behave bad, and to be honest, in my experience, not much "teaching" goes on. |
Sounds exactly like my current grade 6 elementary school class. Socio economic factors seem to play a big part in how well the students behave. My 1st elementary school in Paju was a breeze compared to my current school. Only had to split up a gang of 5 girls who were mocking me. They weren't so tough on their own. And my grade 2 class last year were awful. Overturning chairs, smacking each other in the mouth, jumping from desk to desk leaving footprints on the top, throwing scissors at each other across the room, boys pushing girls around & locking them in cupboards. Hardly a model of well behaved grade 2 elementary school kids. When I tried to step in & stop this unacceptable behaviour, the kids would complain to their parents their English teacher yelled at them for no reason. If you give them something to do using their hands like cutting out a photocopied picture of an apple & sticking it on an 'A', a banana & pasting it on a 'B' etc, then they are generally a lot quieter & better behaved.
Another consideration is that Seoul & Gyeonggido have recently introduced a zero corporal punishment rule, after pressure from parents. In my old middle school, the Korean teachers would make them crabwalk, kneel on the floor balancing books on their head, cane them, & other Draconian forms of punishment, so they WERE much better behaved than my current elementary school classes. My old middle school in a prosperous rural town was an all girls school, & it does seem to be that the boys cause the most problems in both elementary & middle schools.
Last edited by chris_J2 on Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ESL Milk "Everyday
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
| toonchoon wrote: |
middle schoolers are harder to control... they're rude, behave bad, and to be honest, in my experience, not much "teaching" goes on.
if you put the smack down on the elementary school kids at first, they will be good for the rest of the year. be mean your first month, no matter what your instincts tell you to do
i suggest 2-3-4th graders. they're the best. |
I agree. My favorites were 4th graders... I don't know what kind of middle schools some of these posters have been teaching in but every middle school I've been in has had a lot more issues with discipline... and smoking, and fighting, and bullying, and drinking, etc... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
