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Mosley
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:39 pm Post subject: Effete "Students" on Rampage |
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Well now...it seems a whole bunch of effete pseudo-proles resent the fact that the world has caught on to the fact that spoiled middle-class brats might have to pay for their "education" instead of having the working poor pay for it for them.
Note the placards of the latte-la-di-da crowd: "Socialist Worker", "Socialist Student" , etc.
Never worked a day in their lives.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3222200/Top-cop-I-did-not-predict-a-riot.html |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 1:18 am Post subject: |
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A bit of balance; The middle classes, despite their numbers, don't pay taxes? I also thought that the poor did anything but work. They're all generational welfare scroungers, aren't they? How are we going to pay for immigrants 10bedroom homes if we don't have enough graduates out there paying taxes?
Anyway, seriously their are genuine fears for the middle class and the poor. The implications of the British Government's actions is simply to drive students into depts that will only make the banks richer. It will create a large social change in British society as these debt bounded students fight for a job at the carphone warehouse and live at moms till they are 40. Which will also mean you can expect a lot more Brits coming to Korea to clear said depts.
Concerning the poor, as the likelihood of debts continues, this deters many poor students from entering college thus perpetuating a poverty trap. Around 1/5 of students are considered 'poor', even with bursaries and some grants universities are going to favour the rich.
Their aren't many social ladders in England, but university used to be one of them. Now the universities will no-longer see any social duty but instead be ruled by the same people that run the banks. No wonder the students are attracted to the Socialist Worker Party. The Liberal Party backed down on their promises on fees, Labour allowed this mess in the first place and it fits snugly into the Conservatives manifesto. |
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recessiontime
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 1:28 am Post subject: |
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| Students getting raped by tuition increases and they are pro-socialism. Don't they realize that high tuition is a natural consequence of socialized student loan lending? |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:05 am Post subject: |
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| recessiontime wrote: |
| Students getting raped by tuition increases and they are pro-socialism. Don't they realize that high tuition is a natural consequence of socialized student loan lending? |
"I don't have enough money for what I want. How can I force other people to give me that money (or give it to a 3rd party who will then give me what I want)? GOVERNMENT! Long-term consequences be damned!" |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:19 am Post subject: |
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| recessiontime wrote: |
| Students getting raped by tuition increases and they are pro-socialism. Don't they realize that high tuition is a natural consequence of socialized student loan lending? |
Maybe they want socialized education like in Scandinavian countries where it is viewed as a common good and is free. |
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recessiontime
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:40 am Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| recessiontime wrote: |
| Students getting raped by tuition increases and they are pro-socialism. Don't they realize that high tuition is a natural consequence of socialized student loan lending? |
Maybe they want socialized education like in Scandinavian countries where it is viewed as a common good and is free. |
ah, that makes sense in a sort of short-sighted thinking kind of way. Another type of hell awaits at the end of that rabbit hole though.
Whatever, the state of affairs in England is FUBAR. It actually reminds me of Toronto but in a way worse. |
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tiger fancini
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:06 am Post subject: |
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| A sizeable number of those students could get a similar standard of education and academic prowess by reading wikipedia, for the mere cost of an internet connection. |
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recessiontime
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| tiger fancini wrote: |
| A sizeable number of those students could get a similar standard of education and academic prowess by reading wikipedia, for the mere cost of an internet connection. |
but without their shiny degrees how will they ever teach English in South Korea? |
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Fat_Elvis
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: In the ghetto
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:03 am Post subject: |
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| recessiontime wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| recessiontime wrote: |
| Students getting raped by tuition increases and they are pro-socialism. Don't they realize that high tuition is a natural consequence of socialized student loan lending? |
Maybe they want socialized education like in Scandinavian countries where it is viewed as a common good and is free. |
ah, that makes sense in a sort of short-sighted thinking kind of way. Another type of hell awaits at the end of that rabbit hole though. |
What does that mean exactly? Most Scandinavian countries have had a functioning welfare system including free tertiary education for the past 50 years with little ill effect. Do you think they are suddenly going to become some Soviet style communist dictatorship in the near future? I very much doubt it. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| recessiontime wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| recessiontime wrote: |
| Students getting raped by tuition increases and they are pro-socialism. Don't they realize that high tuition is a natural consequence of socialized student loan lending? |
Maybe they want socialized education like in Scandinavian countries where it is viewed as a common good and is free. |
ah, that makes sense in a sort of short-sighted thinking kind of way. Another type of hell awaits at the end of that rabbit hole though.
Whatever, the state of affairs in England is FUBAR. It actually reminds me of Toronto but in a way worse. |
wow, you'll say the dumbest things instead of admitting you made a mistake. |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
wow, you'll say the dumbest things instead of admitting you made a mistake. |
You've obviously never read any economic theory, so I'll keep it simpler than recessiontime did.
He didn't make a mistake. He pointed out that in a system where the government gives money to people to buy education, the number of people wanting an education will increase, because it's effectively cheaper. Unless the supply of education goes up, the price will then increase.
1. Demand goes up
2. Supply stays steady
3. Price increases
When you suggested that the students wanted 100% subsidized education, recessiontime alluded to other problems which would result from this scenario (which is not currently happening, obviously) but doesn't go into detail as to why it's a bad idea.
I hope that clears things up for ya Leon. Initial post was not a mistake in any sense of the word, and his response to you was direct and accurate as well. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| comm wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
wow, you'll say the dumbest things instead of admitting you made a mistake. |
You've obviously never read any economic theory, so I'll keep it simpler than recessiontime did.
He didn't make a mistake. He pointed out that in a system where the government gives money to people to buy education, the number of people wanting an education will increase, because it's effectively cheaper. Unless the supply of education goes up, the price will then increase.
1. Demand goes up
2. Supply stays steady
3. Price increases
When you suggested that the students wanted 100% subsidized education, recessiontime alluded to other problems which would result from this scenario (which is not currently happening, obviously) but doesn't go into detail as to why it's a bad idea.
I hope that clears things up for ya Leon. Initial post was not a mistake in any sense of the word, and his response to you was direct and accurate as well. |
Ha, well that is just as well that you think that. What I said was a direct quote of something he said to me in another thread when he thought I made I mistake, but was actually correct.
Anyways his response to me showed a lack of understanding and an adherence to his theories as opposed to the reality of the situation I mentioned. As to economic theories I've read quite a few, as opposed to most people here who've read only one set and put all belief into it. Free university education can and does work in some cases, not that I'm advocating it, but to suggest that it can't is a mistake as shown by the Scandinavian countries I mentioned. |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| Free university education can and does work in some cases, not that I'm advocating it, but to suggest that it can't is a mistake as shown by the Scandinavian countries I mentioned. |
Fair enough, I just wanted to point out the logic of how partially subsidized education results in price increases.
I'd actually be pretty interested in learning about how these countries handle their education systems. Higher education is one of the few services I think governments should impose taxes to support, similarly to infrastructure investment.
It seems like a big waste though. Do they prevent people who aren't cut out for it from entering? Do gas station attendants all have college degrees? |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| recessiontime wrote: |
| Students getting raped by tuition increases and they are pro-socialism. Don't they realize that high tuition is a natural consequence of socialized student loan lending? |
Maybe they want socialized education like in Scandinavian countries where it is viewed as a common good and is free. |
I think it works in Scandinavian countries because of their small populations. If it weren't for their small populations their generous social systems would be pretty expensive to maintain. I'd love to see their type of system successfully implemented in a larger country, but none have pulled it off yet. |
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Mosley
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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I honestly wouldn't be surprised if many of those scholars who went on the rampage also attended this gem:
http://news.ca.msn.com/photogallery.aspx?cp-documentid=26306413&page=6
The late great Milton Friedman called taxpayer-subsidized university education "one of the greatest suppressed scandals of our age." I heartily agree. Certainly, in Canada, in the last c. 45 yrs., the massive governmental involvement in the univ. racket has NOT led to more social mobility. Rather, we've long had a situation where dishwashers, lower-level office clerks, forklift drivers, etc., etc., subsidize universities so that the children of professors, civil servants, lawyers, accountants, etc., go on to be...well, professors, civil servants, lawyers, accountants, etc.
Time is long past for the taxpayer to pay into the univ. system. End subsidies and to compensate, universities will have to be run along the lines of a business. Abolish tenure. Keep only those actually contribute to actual education rather than social science ideologies. Entire depts./colleges would have to be abolished. Kick the non-faculty holders of BS positions of sinecure right into the street. Contract out services.
I support(as long as needed reforms are implemented)governmental student loans programs. |
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