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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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sigmundsmith
Joined: 22 Nov 2007
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 Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:55 am Post subject: Why the University Job? |
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It is funny how we see so many posters on here wanting the sought after university job. The strange thing is relates to the amount of hours (or lack of) you will be teaching, the number of days you will be teaching and the number of months vacation.
There is no mention of quality of teaching, professional advancement, career expansion etc.
I maybe silly in asking this but do all professors in our respective home countries ask these similar questions when applying for a teaching position? Of course they ask the basic question like posted above but they have more questions than above then we do. |
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murmanjake
Joined: 21 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:59 am Post subject: |
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Doesn't career advancement typically gain one better benefits such as pay/hours worked, vacation and so forth?
What's so ignoble aboutt seeking out a University job for these reasons?
Or are we all just in it to benefit the human race as a whole?\
I wouldn't know how professors in our home countries approach it, but in the end I think most people are looking out for number 1. |
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sigmundsmith
Joined: 22 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:03 am Post subject: |
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| murmanjake wrote: |
Doesn't career advancement typically gain one better benefits such as pay/hours worked, vacation and so forth?
What's so ignoble at seeking out a University job for these reasons?
Or are we all just in it to benefit the human race as a whole? |
You make valid points. And I agree with them. But there is no discussion on how our ability as language instructors benefit the students.
It is about getting the high pay, short class teaching time and the long vacation.
Of course we will not change the world but we should be looking at the opportunity at changing our students minds and expectations |
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languistic
Joined: 25 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:06 am Post subject: Re: Why the University Job? |
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| sigmundsmith wrote: |
It is funny how we see so many posters on here wanting the sought after university job. The strange thing is relates to the amount of hours (or lack of) you will be teaching, the number of days you will be teaching and the number of months vacation.
There is no mention of quality of teaching, professional advancement, career expansion etc.
I maybe silly in asking this but do all professors in our respective home countries ask these similar questions when applying for a teaching position? Of course they ask the basic question like posted above but they have more questions than above then we do. |
The very thick glass ceiling is a formidable obstacle which precludes most discussions regarding the lofty ideals you speak of. |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:12 am Post subject: |
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| Most uni offers are crap. Uni's seem totally overrated. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:18 am Post subject: |
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You raise an interesting point about university work. The way some posters describe it on here those jobs sound more like part time jobs people can use to supply a base salary to which they can add to by taking on privates or corporates. They generally don't pay very well or provide decent housing allowances so that seems fair enough, although you wonder what the Korean people who employ these lecturers have in mind with regards to the time they expect them to work outside the class room. Do they expect them to just turn up for classes, do the bare minimum and spend the rest of the time riding the subway around Seoul grubbing around for extra private lessons? Probably not but in that case they should probably give them a bit more of a structure at work/pay them a better salary/offer them tenure etc...
With regards to what murmanjake says, the majority of university lecturers probably are in it for the easy life and are not bothered about self development. I know people who have worked at universities for 10 years or more and have never been observed or attended a single conference or even a teaching development session. They got their MA, found a university job and just gave up. Fair enough, who are we to judge? They might be brilliant fathers/mothers etc.. and at the end of the day as you say, the majority of us get away with the bare minimum at work and and look after our own in our homes. |
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languistic
Joined: 25 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
You raise an interesting point about university work. The way some posters describe it on here those jobs sound more like part time jobs people can use to supply a base salary to which they can add to by taking on privates or corporates. They generally don't pay very well or provide decent housing allowances so that seems fair enough, although you wonder what the Korean people who employ these lecturers have in mind with regards to the time they expect them to work outside the class room. Do they expect them to just turn up for classes, do the bare minimum and spend the rest of the time riding the subway around Seoul grubbing around for extra private lessons? Probably not but in that case they should probably give them a bit more of a structure at work/pay them a better salary/offer them tenure etc...
With regards to what murmanjake says, the majority of university lecturers probably are in it for the easy life and are not bothered about self development. I know people who have worked at universities for 10 years or more and have never been observed or attended a single conference or even a teaching development session. They got their MA, found a university job and just gave up. Fair enough, who are we to judge? They might be brilliant fathers/mothers etc.. and at the end of the day as you say, the majority of us get away with the bare minimum at work and and look after our own in our homes. |
People call me a troll while others get away with this. |
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dongjak
Joined: 30 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:58 am Post subject: |
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| I work at a University. I took it because I like the vacation, the low working hours and the freedom to run my own classroom with no one bothering me. Also it allows me to pursue my other interests as I don't want this job for the rest of my life. But, yeah...I took it for the vacation. |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 6:28 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
You raise an interesting point about university work. The way some posters describe it on here those jobs sound more like part time jobs people can use to supply a base salary to which they can add to by taking on privates or corporates. They generally don't pay very well or provide decent housing allowances so that seems fair enough, although you wonder what the Korean people who employ these lecturers have in mind with regards to the time they expect them to work outside the class room. Do they expect them to just turn up for classes, do the bare minimum and spend the rest of the time riding the subway around Seoul grubbing around for extra private lessons? Probably not but in that case they should probably give them a bit more of a structure at work/pay them a better salary/offer them tenure etc...
With regards to what murmanjake says, the majority of university lecturers probably are in it for the easy life and are not bothered about self development. I know people who have worked at universities for 10 years or more and have never been observed or attended a single conference or even a teaching development session. They got their MA, found a university job and just gave up. Fair enough, who are we to judge? They might be brilliant fathers/mothers etc.. and at the end of the day as you say, the majority of us get away with the bare minimum at work and and look after our own in our homes. |
Then there are some uni teachers that do go to lectures.
Either way, these people out to work short shifts and have long vacations don't give up�they enjoy their lives. They also manage to save a bit of cash while vacationing for up to five months a year. If I didn't adore kids so much I'd have gone for that in the first place. I probably should have, with hindsight... |
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TECO
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 6:57 am Post subject: Re: Why the University Job? |
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| sigmundsmith wrote: |
It is funny how we see so many posters on here wanting the sought after university job. The strange thing is relates to the amount of hours (or lack of) you will be teaching, the number of days you will be teaching and the number of months vacation.
There is no mention of quality of teaching, professional advancement, career expansion etc.
I maybe silly in asking this but do all professors in our respective home countries ask these similar questions when applying for a teaching position? Of course they ask the basic question like posted above but they have more questions than above then we do. |
Korea is often a bit different than Japan and a lot different than Taiwan in this regard. However, all university teaching jobs are not equal.
Again, university teaching contracts for foreign EFL instructors do not offer the same working conditions, salary, benefits, etc. Very few are tenured instructors who are promotable within the academic ranks from Lecturer, Assistant Professor, Associate Professor to full Professor, while others are working for peanuts and have no guarantees of contract renewals.
When someone in the pub tells me, like they did on the weekend, "I got a job as a professor in a university!" I listen to them, but listen for the details. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| Either way, these people out to work short shifts and have long vacations don't give up�they enjoy their lives |
Of course I didn't mean give up on their lives I was talking about what Sigmundsmith said about quality of teaching, professional advancement, career expansion etc. I've worked at universities in Korea and the overwhelming atmosphere among native speakers about the place was how easy the job was, how long the holidays were and how little anyone was held account for anything. People boast about their university jobs on here all the time and when they do, they always go on about the holidays the short working week and how much they are left alone. e,g Dongjak being a typical example, 'I took it because I like the vacation, the low working hours and the freedom to run my own classroom with no one bothering me.' Nobody to my knowledge has ever mentioned how supportive the other Korean lecturers are and what a great atmosphere the staffroom has for self development and advancement.
Nothing wrong with that and as I said before the majority of people thrive under those conditions. Some people, however do want to be 'bothered' by managers who might help them to develop and have knowledge to impart and do want to be part of a team pulling together to improve the general level of education. I know a lot of universities exclude teachers from this kind of thing, or teachers don't feel they want to be a part of it and I think that's a shame.
And one of the reasons why Native speakers behave the way at universities may be because they see the Korean lecturers not really giving much thought to quality in the class room but buzzing around getting extra work and classes wherever they can. Shafting the students' schedules all the time cos they secured extra money at other campuses and the like
Last edited by edwardcatflap on Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:34 am; edited 2 times in total |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:30 am Post subject: Re: Why the University Job? |
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| sigmundsmith wrote: |
It is funny how we see so many posters on here wanting the sought after university job. The strange thing is relates to the amount of hours (or lack of) you will be teaching, the number of days you will be teaching and the number of months vacation.
There is no mention of quality of teaching, professional advancement, career expansion etc.
I maybe silly in asking this but do all professors in our respective home countries ask these similar questions when applying for a teaching position? Of course they ask the basic question like posted above but they have more questions than above then we do. |
first of all you cannot compare what foreigners do at Universities (the vast majority are English instructors) with what Professors do back home. It is just not the same job at all.
Different qualifications required, different duties, different everything.
As for Korea, TEACHERS (most are not professors) seek university jobs because its a good way to improve your situation and these positions lead to many opportunities. The lower hours increase your per-hour earnings and free up time to do other things like improve your qualifications through professional development, learn new things (language), have more free time to do something you enjoy. |
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dongjak
Joined: 30 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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| Either way, these people out to work short shifts and have long vacations don't give up�they enjoy their lives |
Of course I didn't mean give up on their lives I was talking about what Sigmundsmith said about quality of teaching, professional advancement, career expansion etc. I've worked at universities in Korea and the overwhelming atmosphere among native speakers about the place was how easy the job was, how long the holidays were and how little anyone was held account for anything. People boast about their university jobs on here all the time and when they do, they always go on about the holidays the short working week and how much they are left alone. e,g Dongjak being a typical example, 'I took it because I like the vacation, the low working hours and the freedom to run my own classroom with no one bothering me.' Nobody to my knowledge has ever mentioned how supportive the other Korean lecturers are and what a great atmosphere the staffroom has for self development and advancement.
Nothing wrong with that and as I said before the majority of people thrive under those conditions. Some people, however do want to be 'bothered' by managers who might help them to develop and have knowledge to impart and do want to be part of a team pulling together to improve the general level of education. I know a lot of universities exclude teachers from this kind of thing, or teachers don't feel they want to be a part of it and I think that's a shame. |
I am completely not involved with self improvement etc in my current job. I am working on something else that is far more important to me and I am lucky enough to have a job that is supportive in my outside activity and has even rescheduled my classes around that activity.
I do what is asked of me in my job and I score fairly high on my evaluations, but I think that has to do with being young and female rather than my actual teaching skills.
My coworkers are considerably older than me, most belong to KOTESOL. Take part in KOTESOL events, both as participants and presenters. They have published articles, attend the university workshops, arrange and conduct their own university workshops and are generally involved with what is going on.
So yeah, I 100 percent fall into the 'i did it for the vacation and low working hours' category, but I think I am the exception at my work. The majority of my coworkers are hard working, self improvers who are both passionate and dedicated to their jobs. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:49 am Post subject: |
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| dongjak wrote: |
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Either way, these people out to work short shifts and have long vacations don't give up�they enjoy their lives |
Of course I didn't mean give up on their lives I was talking about what Sigmundsmith said about quality of teaching, professional advancement, career expansion etc. I've worked at universities in Korea and the overwhelming atmosphere among native speakers about the place was how easy the job was, how long the holidays were and how little anyone was held account for anything. People boast about their university jobs on here all the time and when they do, they always go on about the holidays the short working week and how much they are left alone. e,g Dongjak being a typical example, 'I took it because I like the vacation, the low working hours and the freedom to run my own classroom with no one bothering me.' Nobody to my knowledge has ever mentioned how supportive the other Korean lecturers are and what a great atmosphere the staffroom has for self development and advancement.
Nothing wrong with that and as I said before the majority of people thrive under those conditions. Some people, however do want to be 'bothered' by managers who might help them to develop and have knowledge to impart and do want to be part of a team pulling together to improve the general level of education. I know a lot of universities exclude teachers from this kind of thing, or teachers don't feel they want to be a part of it and I think that's a shame. |
I am completely not involved with self improvement etc in my current job. I am working on something else that is far more important to me and I am lucky enough to have a job that is supportive in my outside activity and has even rescheduled my classes around that activity.
I do what is asked of me in my job and I score fairly high on my evaluations, but I think that has to do with being young and female rather than my actual teaching skills.
My coworkers are considerably older than me, most belong to KOTESOL. Take part in KOTESOL events, both as participants and presenters. They have published articles, attend the university workshops, arrange and conduct their own university workshops and are generally involved with what is going on.So yeah, I 100 percent fall into the 'i did it for the vacation and low working hours' category, but I think I am the exception at my work. The majority of my coworkers are hard working, self improvers who are both passionate and dedicated to their jobs. |
The bolded part is what many Teachers actually do when they get University jobs. Those actions indicate people who plan ahead and want a career as opposed to a gig.
What the previous poster is doing is also smart, he does his job well and pursues something important to him with the extre free time.
Those that do the minimum and balk when managers or supervisors ask something usually are those who get a thanks but no thanks come contract renewal time.
Having worked for a University for a few years before leaving Korea, those teachers got shown the door after a year or so because frankly speaking there are many more applicants where they came from. Biggest mistake made by such teachers is thinking they are special because they are foreign and that as such they cannot be easily replaced... |
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olsanairbase
Joined: 30 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| For some its the ability to work in a position which in any other country they would not be qualified to be serving at. Without a masters or a PhD in most places outside of Korea one could not work at such a place. But in many universities since jobs are filled in country and since most are low paid one only needs a bachelors |
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