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SoylaMBPolymath
Joined: 21 Jan 2011
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 Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:21 pm Post subject: Resume Paring? |
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Greetings to you all. This is my first post so I hope you will all be gentle with me.
I am intent upon being on a flight to South Korea no later than August. I'd love to leave sooner but the assembling of documents and an assortment of other pecuniary limitations impeding upon my ability to make that possible. I spoke to a few people (two recruiters, one employee of a Language School) and feel good about my chances of securing a position when the time arrives. The language school employee made a recommendation to me which I took with a bit of trepidation. I thought I'd relay it to you all and see what you thought of his advice.
Essentially, he advised that I remove any and all work experience from my resume which cannot conceivably be parlayed as helpful in a classroom. Bear in mind I have no formal teaching experience, but I have worked with children in both bookstores and public libraries, and well, I love kids! The employee advised me to emphasize that experience but to remove my other experience (i.e. boring clerical and administrative work). I don't feel comfortable doing that. I expressed my discomfort to him and his response was, "Trust me, they won't care about any of that stuff and it's not useful. I've been in Korea since 1990, I know what I'm talking about." Working for a securities attorney or in a court room records office is certainly not germane to teaching English, I'll grant you that, but I just feel like I should keep the resume reflective of all of my experience.
What do you think? Is he right? Should I pare down my resume so that it just shows what I've down with books and kids? |
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littlelisa
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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If you're not comfortable removing it, you can still emphasize your experience working with kids by cutting your work experience section in two.
Teaching/Working with Kids
Other Work Experience
That way they see your experience working with kids first, and it still doesn't leave any odd gaps of employment. But it does make sense that you should at least emphasize working with kids. Makes no sense for them to look at your CV and have the first work experience they see as some administrative thing. People tend to only glance over a CV, so makes sense to show them the important stuff first. But they likely don't care about your other work experience anyway. |
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thegadfly
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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How long is your resume with all of your work listed, and how long without? If you are paring from over two pages to under two, then you definitely want to cut all that stuff out. If all your work experience fits neatly on a single page, two at the most, then keep it in. If your relevant experience fits neatly on a single page, without glaring whitespace, then keep only that, and send a one-page resume.
You were given good advice -- there are places that won't care about your work experience, just about your salary and availability -- those places won't care what you list. There are places that are a bit pickier, and those places at best won't care about your non-relevant experience, and at worst will wonder what problem you had or caused that made you decide to leave your field of experience...including all of your experience will not HELP you get jobs, and might KEEP you from getting a job.
If you have a VERY short resume, though (less than 3/4s of a page, even WITH non-relevant experience), then I would backtrack and say it would do more good to keep it than to cut it...if your relevant experience is zero, or a single line, then yeah, keep it all.... |
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SoylaMBPolymath
Joined: 21 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| littlelisa wrote: |
If you're not comfortable removing it, you can still emphasize your experience working with kids by cutting your work experience section in two.
Teaching/Working with Kids
Other Work Experience
That way they see your experience working with kids first, and it still doesn't leave any odd gaps of employment. But it does make sense that you should at least emphasize working with kids. Makes no sense for them to look at your CV and have the first work experience they see as some administrative thing. People tend to only glance over a CV, so makes sense to show them the important stuff first. But they likely don't care about your other work experience anyway. |
This makes sense. My only hesitation is that chronologically my most recent experience is not child-related. In other words, it's the arguably expendable administrative information. |
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SoylaMBPolymath
Joined: 21 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| thegadfly wrote: |
How long is your resume with all of your work listed, and how long without? If you are paring from over two pages to under two, then you definitely want to cut all that stuff out. If all your work experience fits neatly on a single page, two at the most, then keep it in. If your relevant experience fits neatly on a single page, without glaring whitespace, then keep only that, and send a one-page resume.
You were given good advice -- there are places that won't care about your work experience, just about your salary and availability -- those places won't care what you list. There are places that are a bit pickier, and those places at best won't care about your non-relevant experience, and at worst will wonder what problem you had or caused that made you decide to leave your field of experience...including all of your experience will not HELP you get jobs, and might KEEP you from getting a job.
If you have a VERY short resume, though (less than 3/4s of a page, even WITH non-relevant experience), then I would backtrack and say it would do more good to keep it than to cut it...if your relevant experience is zero, or a single line, then yeah, keep it all.... |
It's two pages, but that's only because I've made an effort to detail as much information as possible about my duties in respective work places. Removing some of that information does bring it down to one page. I've played around and tried to make my "new" ESL resume to see how it might look. It's definitely shorter, but as previously mentioned, it does not contain my most recent work experience. And as for a potential employer wondering what made me leave my "field of expertise" it was this little thing called the Financial Implosion of 2008. I've been searching like mad for work in Texas, but alas, there is nothing. I'm not opposed to new experiences and am very much hoping to pursue a teaching opportunity and making the most of the experience. Even it's horrific (I've read some astoundingly frightening things on this forum), it will be better than being stuck in Texas without any prospects.
Thank you both so much for responding. I will certainly take what you've told me into consideration.
Cheers! |
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lifeinkorea
Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Location: somewhere in China
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| The language school employee made a recommendation |
What's the point in that? If you were not going to work there, then this might be worthwhile advice. You could modify it to show another school.
Things are too "buddy buddy" and you can get really screwed if you put another employee between you and your employer.
I would be talking to current teachers in order to hear their recommendation of the school (which can be biased because they are working for the school and don't want bad comments to come back on them). I wouldn't be contacting a teacher at a school for "advice".
Why can't this teacher provide the same help in an open forum like this?
My experience with these big brother types, that might potentially work alongside you, is that they are by far major control freaks. They feel empowered to speak for the school and make decisions where maybe in all honesty they shouldn't. You will have enough flack from the Korean "managers" trying to put you in line.
Common things like pay date or vacation days would make more sense "negotiating" when talking to teachers. However, YOUR EMPLOYABILITY RESTS ON YOUR SHOULDERS.
Let's assume this person is 100% correct. Why does it matter? Koreans don't even look through resumes enough to know where you are from. They have to hear it from you during the interview. Simple things like this just make me wonder what the real motive is. |
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thegadfly
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:27 am Post subject: |
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Soyla,
I was a high school teacher in Houston for a couple of years -- even teaching at Wonderland was a better experience -- horror stories most likely won't happen to you if you come prepared...you may have a bad experience, but if you do, you just leave....
Lifeinkorea,
Perhaps the motive of the fellow giving advice was simply to help Soyla -- I know that when I have done the hiring, folks that have a lot of irrelevant work listed get dropped to the bottom of the pile.... applicants that only listed pertinent work history and had a line or two about working in an unrelated field in their cover letter to explain any time gaps in the resume got moved to mid-pile (as they demonstrated an awareness of the position for which they were applying).
It may have been an intent to help, as surprising as that might be to some folks.... |
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lifeinkorea
Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Location: somewhere in China
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:02 am Post subject: |
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thegadfly,
My resume here, recruiter over there ------> X
The monkey in the middle is another native English teacher?
I am sorry, I don't see the benefit in another native English teacher looking at my resume.
This is not an accounting job for a company back home. This is a resume to Koreans. They don't read the resumes. When you enter the interview stage:
Korean Employee: You are (name)?
You: Yes (just as it states in my resume...you think)
Korean Employee: You are from (country)?
You: Yes (just as it states in my resume...you think)
Korean Employee: You went to ___ college?
You: Yes (just as it states in my resume...you think)
Korean Employee: You taught at ___ schools before?
You: Yes (just as it states in my resume...you think)
I have had 100% bad interactions with other NET's trying to "help" me when they meddle in things where they don't belong. Going online like this is one thing.
Something else is up with this person. Consider that my advice if you still disagree. |
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thegadfly
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:33 am Post subject: |
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LifeinKorea,
I was under the impression that the language school employee was a friend or acquaintance of the OP, and that this friend or acquaintance was asked for advice -- not some guy grabbing the OP's resume and chiming in with what he thought ought to be done.... The scenario, as I understand it, is very different from the one you are spinning -- the OP solicited advice from this person, because the person has a job in the field -- not because he will be working in the same school. |
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lifeinkorea
Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Location: somewhere in China
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I spoke to a few people (two recruiters, one employee of a Language School) |
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| the language school employee was a friend or acquaintance of the OP |
Interesting reference to a "friend" then. I'll leave it at that.
| Quote: |
| the OP solicited advice from this person, because the person has a job in the field -- not because he will be working in the same school. |
Oh, I understand that, in THIS instance. However, it's just one link in a chain. As I already stated, these people feel empowered to give "advice" in places maybe they shouldn't. I don't want my resume or other personal information just freely given when the intent is for the employer.
I don't see the benefit here. |
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SoylaMBPolymath
Joined: 21 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| lifeinkorea wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The language school employee made a recommendation |
What's the point in that? If you were not going to work there, then this might be worthwhile advice. You could modify it to show another school.
Things are too "buddy buddy" and you can get really screwed if you put another employee between you and your employer.
I would be talking to current teachers in order to hear their recommendation of the school (which can be biased because they are working for the school and don't want bad comments to come back on them). I wouldn't be contacting a teacher at a school for "advice".
Why can't this teacher provide the same help in an open forum like this?
My experience with these big brother types, that might potentially work alongside you, is that they are by far major control freaks. They feel empowered to speak for the school and make decisions where maybe in all honesty they shouldn't. You will have enough flack from the Korean "managers" trying to put you in line.
Common things like pay date or vacation days would make more sense "negotiating" when talking to teachers. However, YOUR EMPLOYABILITY RESTS ON YOUR SHOULDERS.
Let's assume this person is 100% correct. Why does it matter? Koreans don't even look through resumes enough to know where you are from. They have to hear it from you during the interview. Simple things like this just make me wonder what the real motive is. |
I couldn't detect any ulterior motives. He was fairly forthcoming. I didn't solicit his advice he simply said, "Let me give you some advice." And this was after I'd indicated to him that I was merely putting the feelers out because I still have to send off my background check (don't get me started on my feelings regarding how long THAT's going to take). In addition to just being ready to start a new chapter, I need to become solvent again. Unemployment is not pleasant. Anyway, the man was no longer a teacher. He was some type of assistant to the director or some such thing. Apparently the director was more comfortable with this man contacting prospective teachers than s/he was as they felt their English was not quite up to snuff, at least that was the reason he gave me. He had mostly positive things to say about his experience but he did have rather backhanded ways of complimenting Korean culture.
I posed to question here to get a broader set of perspectives because once I have my Apostilled BCG and Diploma in hand I intend to repost my resume and hope to make it as attractive as possible for any potential employers. |
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SoylaMBPolymath
Joined: 21 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| thegadfly wrote: |
LifeinKorea,
I was under the impression that the language school employee was a friend or acquaintance of the OP, and that this friend or acquaintance was asked for advice -- not some guy grabbing the OP's resume and chiming in with what he thought ought to be done.... The scenario, as I understand it, is very different from the one you are spinning -- the OP solicited advice from this person, because the person has a job in the field -- not because he will be working in the same school. |
I did not know the man from Adam. He was calling me in reference to a position he had. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:27 am Post subject: |
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Taken on the whole OP, it sounds like you've been given good advice above. Most placement experts recommend that you write your resume to target not only the type of job you are applying for, but when possible, tweak it to present your best assets for each employer.
So, do list your teaching related backgroud first and pare your unrelated items. You are correct that you don't want to leave unexplained blanks in your employment history. But, for a job in Korea, you don't have to list your entire life's work history. A few recent years is enough. You don't have to put the date of your University graduation either. |
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thegadfly
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:42 am Post subject: |
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| SoylaMBPolymath wrote: |
| thegadfly wrote: |
LifeinKorea,
I was under the impression that the language school employee was a friend or acquaintance of the OP, and that this friend or acquaintance was asked for advice -- not some guy grabbing the OP's resume and chiming in with what he thought ought to be done.... The scenario, as I understand it, is very different from the one you are spinning -- the OP solicited advice from this person, because the person has a job in the field -- not because he will be working in the same school. |
I did not know the man from Adam. He was calling me in reference to a position he had. |
Lifeinkorea,
I stand corrected. I mistook the situation. He received unsolicited advice from someone who saw his r�sum�, which could be taken as either rude or helpful.
I'm not the owner of the school at which I work. Currently, I am not any kind of director there, either. I am, however, shown the r�sum�s of applicants, and my input has some influence on the hiring process. I WAS a foreign director at my previous gig, and I did do the hiring at that time. I have seen many shoddy r�sum�s and cover letters, but I have never taken it upon myself to "correct" any of the applicants -- I merely thanked them for their time and interest, and went on about dealing with folks that made it past the first cut.
Had I actually told folks that their inability to spell check such an important document cost them their shot at the job, perhaps they would have learned from that experience and actually improved their chances in the future. I haven't bothered to do so, however, because those folks tick me off for wasting my time -- I am not going to waste even MORE time fixing their mistakes for them. The fact that this other fellow was willing to do so (making suggestions that a number of folks that DO do the hiring have said is good advice) puts him more into the helpful camp than the arsehole camp.
Would you rather walk around with your fly down, or would you prefer some stranger be "rude" and tell you so you could fix it? Sure, it is easier if a friend tells you, but I would prefer to know than not...and I guess you are the opposite, which is indeed fine.... |
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SoylaMBPolymath
Joined: 21 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:58 am Post subject: |
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Not that it matters, but, for the sake of clarification. I am female.
Again, thank you all for your insight.
And for the forum member who sent me the helpful, detailed message in response to this inquiry, thank you so very much. Unfortunately, per the forum's guidelines, I am unable to compose a private response to you. I just didn't want you to think I was indifferent. I hope you read this. |
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