Korean Job Discussion Forums

[HighTreason]

This is a review of ICEV for anyone looking into working there.

ICEV, or Incheon English Village seems like an attractive place to work. Heck, just look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MvgrU91MKs Boy dos that look like a great place to work. Unfortunately, I have to inform you that that video and anything you have been told by (maybe even unwitting) recruiters or the school itself is a complete lie. In all fairness, I hear that back when that video was made years ago, it was more true. Now it would make anyone who works at ICEV laugh. In reality, ICEV is run by an unscrupulous money-grubbing family that cares little about the students and even less about the teachers.

That said, let's start the review proper with the positive aspects, just to be fair. It is actually different than your average teaching job. There are a variety of subject one can teach including music, art, cooking, architecture, and several others. The kids that go there do generally have a good time, although I hear the satisfaction rate is quite a bit lower with the new curriculum implemented about a month ago. You will generally teach a variety of things each day so it's not the same class format every period. You pretty much repeat the same thing every week, though, since it's a week long program.

Now that that's out of thw way, let's move on to why you should absolutely NOT decide to work there.

--It's not an English village
That's right, the name itself is a lie. It's a couple of buildings out in the country. Notice how that video link at the top of this review doesn't show any wide shots of the supposed "English Village" and no that shot of buildings that resemble a village that's shown strategically when the announcer mentions the "village" is not ICEV. That's the view standing in front of it. I have never seen any American footbal equipmant. No one ever played lacrosse. The go-carts exist but they were only ever taken out when they had a big festival to impress the mayor so the city would keep giving them a ridiculous amount of money every month.

--Your apartment will be empty
It is standard in Koea to be given an apartment with some stuff in it to get you started. The best I ever got from a school was microwave, DVD player, bed, bedding, TV, sofa, desk, chair and table, and plates, silverware, cups, and towels. The worst before ICEV was just a bed, bedding, TV, desk, chair, a plate, a cup, and a towel. ICEV will give you a bed. No bedding, no nothing. You get an empty room with a bare bed.

--Considering working hours divided by pay, it's one of the lowest paying jobs I know of in Korea.
On the surface, it looks like they pay about the same as other schools, but your days are much longer than in almost any other school for that pay. I heard rumours that they are running ads saying you can make up to 3 million a month. I haven't seen these ads but, if they exist, this is an outright lie.

--You may or may not get paid for overtime you work
They will require you to work overtime and they may decide to pay you or not based on their whims at the time. Sometimes you will be told you are getting paid for it and not told otherwise unril you show up for work. If they don't pay you, they will try to console you with some small token like half a day off in the future, which if you figure it out is worth far less than the overtime you're owed. This is not only unethical but just as illegal in Korea as it probably is in your country of origin.

--You may be given unpaid time off
They have been known to just tell people not come to work for periods of time, and that they are not going to pay them for that time. While the time off may be nice, the not getting paid isn't. The reason you have a job is to get money. If you wanted time off and no money, you wouldn't bother getting a job, right? This is also illegal in Korea to do to a full-time employee.

--You can be fired for being gay
Of course they won't tell you that's the reason, but if you're gay, don't let anyone know or they will fire you. This happened to an employee two weeks into his contract during the time I worked there.

--They regularly comb the contract with a fine-toothed comb to find tings they can reinterpret to make you work more withou paying you any more. It took an all out revolt about a yeasr ago to stop a plan to suddenly increase the working hours by an hour a day (the working hours were already 8 hours a day) You will have to work during your lunch periods as well, by the way. That one went through.

--They might just fire you a week before your contract to avoid paying what they owe you
Yes, you heard right. You know how your contract promises airfare after you complete a year? You know how Korean law states that you get one month's salary extra after you complete a year at any full time job in the country? Well, guess what? If you work 11 months and 3 weeks, you don't get any of that. They will also try to take the money they paid for your flight over as well. All that will most likely add up to between 4 and 5 million won. On the bright side, if you go to the labor board and contact lawyers and make them get a little worried, they might offer to not deduct the airfare over in exchange for a letter of resignation so they can wiggle their way out of legal trouble. They have done this before. There is no reason to believe they will not do it again.

In conclusion, it's just not worth it getting a job at ICEV. If you want to work in an English village, check any of the numerous REAL English villages: Paju, Ansan, Busan, Seoul, and others

ICEV: why take the chance for so little to gain?

[West Coast Tatterdemalion]

Well, screw all the English villages. The hagwon racket is bad enough. English villages seem to be a million times worse. Just say, "No."

[marsavalanche]

My first hagwon was an English Village in Seoul. Had 0 problems with it. Paid on time and everything, school set me up with a bank account + phone, we went to dinners where I didn't pay a dime, etc. Most importantly, I probably had 5-6 classes a day which was chill compared to most hagwons I know.

They aren't all bad. Sorry you didn't have a good experience at yours.

[thomas pars]

Ha!

Some recruiter offered me this gig. It seemed legit. I think they said working hours were from 10-5. maybe.

I never followed up on it cause when i tried to figure out where it was I noticed it was in the middle of nowhere. Basically between the industrial waste space of Gimpo and some huge landfill. And that was about it. Nice to hear they are crooks are well.

Ha.

[ThingsComeAround]

I worked across the street at another "English Village" which is also a sham factory. They pimped the foreign teachers to "visit" public schools around Incheon to try and pull more students.

But, luckily, no one was fired last minute as you say. There were lots of scare tactics/switch and bait shenanigans, unfortunately.

There was one manager (who I had a beef with) that got herself fired for sleeping with a teacher in one of the experience rooms the children play in during the day. Unfortunately, there is a nutty, fruity idiot that works the payroll and couldn't give a damn if he screws up or not, you pretty much have to threaten him with violence before he gets off his @$$ and does the right thing. (His name starts with a D)

Stay away from all the EVs if you know what is good for you

[hopelesswanderer]

I am a current employee at ICEV. I would like to give a couple bits of information about the current working and living conditions at Incheon English Village. It will be difficult, but I will try to be as objective as possible. People deserve to know what to expect before making their decision.


LIVING:

New employees are no longer given apartments. They are assigned to dorm rooms in a building not too far from ICEV.

Your room comes with a bed (no bedding), a desk, a couple shelves, a couple closets, and an old style TV. These things must stay in your room. You are not allowed to move them, even if you don't use them.

The rooms are quite small and the bathroom is not western style (by this I mean your shower head hangs above your sink, so when you shower everything in the bathroom gets wet and the drain is on the floor. It would be next to impossible to create an area with a shower curtain)

Around 25 teachers live in this dorm (some from ICEV, some from the school next door, GEC) and share the laundry and kitchen facilities.

There are only 2 washers and two dryers shared between all of the teachers (there is no room in your room to set up a drying rack)
The washers are not attached to a hot water source.

The kitchen currently has only two burners. There is no oven. These burners are shared between the 25 teachers and around 10 bus drivers. The bus drivers cook dinner there every night so during this time you probably won't be able to cook.
The kitchen is not a heated area (you will need to bundle up to cook in the winter)

There are a couple microwaves in the building and several water stations (they have cold and hot water taps)

There is wired internet in each room, but no WiFi. The speed is usually very fast.

You don't pay any bills at the dorms.

WORK:

You will be working within 24 hours of your arrival. Some people are brought to work within hours of getting off the plane. This will be done if your arrival time and the school hours allow.

You will be required to work Monday through Saturday. Yes, six days a week, despite what you are told on the phone.
(Disclaimer: There are a couple programs in which a few teachers DO have a 5 day work-week from Tuesday to Saturday. This is only for a select few, so don't count on it.)

Overtime is mandatory. You will be told it is optional during phone interviews. It is mandatory. Again, it IS NOT OPTIONAL.

You get a few weeks off per year, but other than that, there is nothing. There is no summer vacation. You will work on Christmas day. You will work every holiday (even Korean government holidays) unless it falls on the scheduled vacation weeks.

There are multiple mandatory, UNPAID events that you must attend. These are usually after working hours.

The work is not difficult. It's actually fun most of the time, but it depends on your attitude.

Now, to be a little less objective...
Korean work culture differs GREATLY from western work culture. This often causes conflict because both sides don't understand the other. Expect it.
Korean work culture expects appreciation for anything given to the employee. A western employee expects to be treated fairly, and with respect. A western employee is usually viewed as "always complaining" when all we want is to be treated fairly and with a little dignity.
Example (completely made-up!):
Korean way - You look tired. Drink some of the free coffee. You should be thankful for the coffee.
Western way - I was only able to sleep 4 hours last night because of work. I deserve fair working and living conditions.


Simple consideration for employees is not present here. This is a business and the bare minimum(in the eyes of westerners) is given to it's employees....and they expect you to be appreciative of it. It's a big cultural clash.
Your time outside of work will never be considered by ICEV. Work is all that matters to them. Work is life here.

Reply if you have specific questions and I will answer them if I can

Hopefully this helps someone!

[3DR]

Sounds like a nightmare.

[Weigookin74]

Guess you shouldn't work for Incheon English Village. Visited one of those in Paju with my school some saturday and they didn't seem too happy either when I talked to a couple of them. I guess all the English villages in Gyeong-gi are private? I knew of others working at smaller ones in the countryside that were owned by the government. Not as fancy as these big shindigs, but I think workers were better treated and had their own places.

Yeah, when you get some d!(khead boss who thinks he's the king of all ajossis. It's the worst. I'm the king, you're beneath me, take my abuse. Most of the time, I haven't had to deal with that. But, when you get it, it's rough. Best advice I can give is to pay your debts quickly so you can get out of dodge if need be.

As for this EV, if they paid 3 million won or something to put up with that, fair enough. If it's 2.0, tell them to shove off.

[LifeLine]

I'm on the verge of accepting a contract to GEC Incheon, I believe that is the "school across the street" from I.C.E.V that some people have referred to.

Any particular warning I should be had of it? I dont expect a perfect experience, especially for my first year in Korea as a teacher. This English Village is apparently publicly funded.

I just like the idea that, unlike another school where I may have little in the ways of a support network, or only have a couple other english speaking teachers, this one I at least have a 11 others. 5 teachers can be replaced, but if you're balancing enough students to need 12 english teachers, then I feel bad bosses can only go so far (may be naive of me, but there is a logic to it... and anyone going to very different culture is bound to have a natural naivety, im prepared for this realization)

Thank you to anyone who can shed light on GEC Incheon English village (one not far from ICEV).

More specifically (and yet so very vague), I want to know the 'good' the 'bad' and the 'ugly'. I understand a lot of schools, especially with my experience (or lack there of) will have some bad, im more concerned about the ugly, and the overall take away from the experience.

I do hope to do a second year, so first year is both a testing period and an experience building period to aim higher in the second year.

[Adam Selene]

GEC is the "school across the street", it was purchased by the owners of ICEV back in March 2013 when it was going under. Many of the same issues apply over there, chief among them, the housing, since that is now where they house new ICEV teachers as well. Same issue of 24-28 teachers to two stove burners, and a small room in the middle of nowhere. One washer, one drier, good luck getting a cab. It's in front of the bus stop though.

The GEC workday is a bit better, I believe they have some slots for Adult Ed. morning classes followed by a lunch break and substantial prep-time daily, with 2:00-8:00 (or something like that) classes. I also think they rarely have Saturday programs, but the parent company being what it is, they have been adding more. A few teachers from there have been pulled for helping at ICEV, but they have asked for volunteers instead of it being mandatory. GEC is less affected by the problems of ICEV since they aren't a residential camp that is also trying to run a plethora of other programs simultaneously, and with half the foreign staff and more students than it was designed for. GEC may have lower compensation than ICEV, and the accommodations are the same. If the accommodations aren't a problem for you, go for it. It seems fairly well put together if boring, but beware unexpected changes coming from on-high.

[LifeLine]

Accommodation is not ideal for me but I also see an upside with the university residence style housing, particularly for a first year teacher, a social network.

Its not my ideal situation to be honest, id rather have more independence, would encourage me to absorb the culture more as well, but I hope this is just the first of at least 2 years.

Im pretty laid back emotionally, not really demanding, and will do what is needed. Probably an ideal employee for a lot of these schools haha, as long as employers are not blatantly disrespectful I shouldn't have an issue. But Im sure I am being a little bit naive.

[Weigookin74]

Living with other foriegners can be good or bad. If they are douchey, it will have you wanting to head for the hills. If they are cool, you won't mind it. Foriegners here are either cool or a mixed bag of nuts. Also, folks can be normal, but if there are great age differences, it can be a pain too. If you are 30 and up, while others are mostly 22 years old, often a big maturity gap.

[thewhisperer]

Preface:
I have finished my contract with ICEV and I have stayed for a period of one full year. There is so much that I can say about this company, but I will try to keep emotions out of my comments as much as possible. There are both pros and cons to working at this type of environment.

Let’s Be Positive and Start with the Pros:

-ICEV always pays on time and typically they pay the amount that you are owed if the amount is agreed upon.

-If you are hired you live in a private dorm room, and pay no utilities, which include electricity, washing and drying machines, water, internet, and air-conditioning (but be aware that you will not have your own private kitchen and you will have to share 4 burners with 25 other people as well as the occasional bus drivers from another school located nearby)
-there is a possibility, for some people, to move to apartments, but selection for this is based on the will of the management to choose this as a reward for employees to do a good job. If you choose this option, utilities are not covered; however, you are given 100,000 won (which covers most of the expenses). The apartment and dorm are located in different areas, the dorm in a rural setting, and the apartment in more of an urban setting.

-Transportation is provided either by bus or taxi. The taxi is paid by the employee up front, but then it is reimbursed by the company monthly or bi-monthly. But sometimes people who live in the dorms have to walk because there is no bus and a taxi driver will not drive across the street as a fare.

-If you like to work overtime, there is an “option” to work overtime, for which the rate of pay is 25,000 won. The overtime will be on Saturday. Everyone must work Saturday, but sometimes you are given an option to have a day off during the week, but this is an option given to very few. This means that most everyone’s work week is Monday to Saturday with only Sunday off.

-If you don’t feel like traditionally teaching, or developing teaching skills, this is the place for you! You are encouraged to have fun first while interacting with kids in English. There is no real accountability, and I have never been observed in class personally. If you want to really learn, or practice teaching, however, this is not the place for you.

-You are generally, with few exceptions, required to work outside of your working hours. In Korea, it is common for people to work unpaid, but generally this is not the case at ICEV.





Now, Time to Be Constructive:

-Asking clarifying questions are discouraged by managers (especially Korean managers) and are seen as a personal attack on them. As an employee if you ask why you should do something, or suggest an alternative, it will be seen as an act of disobedience. You will be accused of complaining, especially if the topic in dispute has to do with an entitlement found in your contract: for example, duties that are not required of you, or losing prep time to complete another class, thus resulting in being unprepared for class. The bottom line is, that you will not be taken into consideration as a teaching professional, but rather just as an expendable employee.

- Because people constantly feel like they are being mistreated, there is a vast negative work culture, especially among the foreign staff. There have been consisting problems with working conditions that managers are aware of, but because of the rigid structure of GlobalEDU’s (the parent company of ICEV) hierarchy, they cannot change. If there is a problem, managers often say that if employees don’t like something, they shouldn’t try to change it, but rather, just quit. It is frustrating to work in an environment where everyone recognizes problems, but no one has the ability to change them, or even speak out against them without being singled-out by upper management.

- There is no solidarity among staff because everyone is always trying to appear like they are doing the best job in order to get benefits. It is common that employees will stab each other in the back to get ahead. If you decide to work here get things in writing as much as possible especially when it relates to changes of schedule, place, or orders from managers.

- The contract will be bent (and sometime broken), however, you will be expected to follow your contract 120% For example December 2013, the entire ICEV staff had to wear Santa hats, although on the surface this seems jolly. But there was no choice in the matter, the hats were sweaty and gave people rashes on their heads. The problem here was that hats of any type were strictly forbidden by the contracts agreed upon by ICEV and each employee. When that fact was brought up, it was stated that the owner of the company and the headmaster wanted everyone to wear the hats, so if we were caught without it we would suffer disciplinary action. Anything in the contracts are subject to change (but only by management when they choose).

-You will be accused of doing things without proof. This is mostly done to save face when shifting blame. For example I was accused of writing articles on Dave’s ESL café (by which I was told by my manager that I was a liar and that she should not believe anything that I said, then threatened to report my writings (which I never wrote) to upper management. This prompted me to write an article myself to not make a liar out of her. ☺

-When someone is left to blame it will never be a manager or supervisor, even when it is clearly his/her fault. Anyone who feels that he/she is above you in company position will never accept blame for anything no matter how small or large. It will always be your fault, and you will be belittled and made to apologize in fear of losing your job.

-There is no communication at all between different departments in the school, and from manager to manager. Many problems will be created from having at least 5 different managers (some of whom do not speak much English at all) that do not communicate to each other. This most commonly includes scheduling problems and sometimes problems with being paid for overtime or reimbursed for taxi fare.

-If there is a problem with you personally or with your work, you will be dealt with unprofessional manners. Managers might cry in order to make you accept guilt, say that you cannot leave the company because of the fragility of the children that you teach, or belittle you and say that they are trying to “teach you a life lesson” when reprimanding you (most likely for something that you did not do).

- At the end of the contract they may or may not decide to pay you for your sick days. There is paperwork to fill out and they might say that you didn’t submit it, or submitted it to the wrong person (they do this of course after you leave the country). This payment is up to 500,000 won.

-They might consistently ignored my emails after they failed to pay me the money that they owed me. To this day, I still have not received the money that they owe me. (If that changes, I will update this posting.)

As a caveat, please do not confuse ICEV with Korea! Korea is a great place to live and sometimes to work—just not at ICEV. It is possible to find a respectable job in Korea that won’t treat you like you are a machine or a piece of meat.

[StellerX]

Thanks for the info thewhisperer. Glad I did a search on the school, as I was just contacted about a possible position at this school and wasn't too sure about some of the advertised conditions.

[philomath]

I’m writing this review about ICEV to give a fair evaluation of the school. The people who seem to write reviews, do so because they personally had a bad experience and they tend to be way more bias, leaning towards the negative side. I wouldn’t say that what they experienced was untrue or not accurate. The experiences that people have are different for all and usually specific to them.

English is big business in S. Korea, hence the reason why foreigners can find employment in S. Korea. The opportunities for foreigners to travel, make money, and further their skills are abundantly available. But with any industry that is profit driven (like English in S. Korea), at the end of the day the main focus is to have a business/product that generates a profit/gain. Furthermore, the businesses are run in S. Korea not our country of origin, thus the rules, customs and expectations are somewhat different. So as a foreigner who expects the environment to mirror the experience to that of a company back at home will have to adjust.

Having said that, it’s time to get on with the review. There are positives and negatives to consider when picking a school to work for. I will avoid interjecting rumors or unsubstantiated facts that I haven’t personally experienced or seen for myself.

Curriculum:
(Positives) ICEV is a unique environment when compared to public schools, hagwons, or even other English village jobs. There are a variety of subjects to teach such as music, art, cooking, architecture, game developer just to mention a few. You will also be teaching group activities like soccer, American football, swimming, quiz games, yoga and many other activities. The curriculum is set but teachers are given enough creative license to incorporate their experiences/character into the classroom. The school also has numerous different programs running simultaneously which gives you more options to choose from. You will teach a variety of age groups from kindergarten to college students to adults. As well as, you will also teach Russian students, Japanese, and Chinese students during summer/winter camps.

(Negatives) The curriculum is very repetitive because it is only a week long program. The students change each week so the teachers use the same lessons to teach the new students the following week. You don’t get as much of a chance to bond with the students like you might in a public school or a hagwon. However, there are ways this can be done through the other programs. And on the topic of other programs (both positive and negative), the negative is that sometimes you don’t have a choice which programs you will be a part of. Also, with all these programs going on teachers are kept busy. You will have to be able to teach students of all age groups, mainly elementary students though (negative if you don’t want to teach a particular age group). One more thing, as a teacher you must be flexible because the schedule can change quickly.

It is an activity based teaching environment (the main program, there are other programs which are more focused using western curriculum) so if you are hands on and like to get involved with the students it will be a good fit for you. However, if you prefer to teach from a sitting position, directly out of a book or teach to an exact page, then maybe a hagwon or public school would be a better fit for you.

Teachers:
(Positives) You get to work and live with people from all over the world. People from countries like USA, Canada, UK, AU, NZ, S. Africa, and of course Korea. So you get a built in community of people who speak your language and who are more familiar with your customs and experiences. Teachers work, travel, and hang out together.

(Negatives) Not much here. Teachers are your best resources and generally all get along. There is always the annoying personality or bad attitude but that is to be expected with any work force.

Accommodations:
(Positives) The school does provide accommodations. It is a dorm style living environment with about 26 rooms. Half of the rooms are filled with teachers from ICEV and half from the sister school. No utilities need to be paid and the school is walking distance from the living quarters. However, a bus is provided to and from the dorms. In the addition to the dorms, ICEV also has apartments which half of the other teachers live at. As new teachers arrive and move into the dorms, dorm teachers then move into the apartments. The apartments are in a convenient location but the travel time to school is longer. A bus is also provided to and from school.

(Negatives) The dorms are not big and you do have to share laundry facilities and a kitchen. Also some of the rooms view directly into a scrap yard. As for the apartments you do have to pay utilities (but you are given extra pay to help cover this cost) which can be expensive if you use you’re A/C or heat too much. Both of the residences do not come with bedding or utensils. There is some furniture in the dorms but the apartments aren’t furnished expect for bed, closets and kitchen appliances (many items are passed down from teachers who are leaving otherwise you need to bring or purchase your own items).

Vacations:
(Positives) Vacations are one of the best benefits at the school. You get 4 weeks of paid vacations per contract. You are able to combine vacations to get 2 or more weeks of paid vacation. In Korea most jobs don’t offer consecutive weeks off. You also receive 5 sick days with a doctor’s note. If unused you are paid for those unused days. Also, you can earn comp time, which can be added to the vacations.

(Negative) 3 out of the 4 vacation weeks are set so you must plan around those times. Also we work on national holidays including Christmas, Halloween, Easter etc…

Pay:
(Positives) The pay is as competitive as any other school. It all depends on your experience and qualifications. Overtime is available and is often needed. Everyone works 40 hours a week. Payday is on the 5th of every month. And contrary to what I have read in other posts, it was always been on time or early if the payday falls on a weekend or holiday.

(Negatives) You actually have to work for your money.

I’m sure I haven’t stated all the positives or negatives aspects of working at ICEV. But there should be enough helpful information to make an informed decision. I can definitely say things like being fired right before the end of your contract for no reason just doesn’t happen. Or that they purposely try to cheat anyone. But if people had a bad experience at ICEV it unfair to just blame the school, people need to look at their actions too. There is no such thing as a perfect job. But each experience is what you make of it. I personally had a good experience at the school. Granted there were some difficult times with a few of the decisions and decision makers but I felt I got out of it what I put in.

So in closing, ask yourself first why you want to work in Korea. What attracted you to this position? And, am I ready to work in a foreign environment with different rules and expectations? If you are comfortable with your answers and comfortable with yourself as a decision maker, than ICEV can be a great experience for you. But if you still have some growing up to do (meaning immature) and living on your own in a foreign country may not be the decision you are ready for.