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Whaling: Beginning of the end?
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mises



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:50 am    Post subject: Whaling: Beginning of the end? Reply with quote

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/richardblack/2011/02/is_this_the_beginning_of.html
Quote:

Is this the beginning of the end for Japanese whaling in the Antarctic?
Clash between whaling ship and opponent

Clashes have been dramatic - enough to cause a U-turn?

That is the biggest question arising from Wednesday's announcement in Tokyo that this season's whaling programme was being suspended.

The Fisheries Agency (FAJ) hasn't formally declared the season over, but it appears likely that the fleet will soon be on its way out of the Southern Ocean and back to harbour.

FAJ official Tatsuya Nakaoku blamed the suspension on harrassment by the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society, which has made life progressively more difficult for the whaling fleet each year by sending faster and better-equipped boats.


Whaling is entirely unacceptable imo. The Japanese have caved to pressure from the SSCS but I hope it sticks.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As long as the whales aren't endangered I don't care if they are hunted.

If they are, obviously that's bad.

Maybe now the can go harass the Norwegians and the Icelanders. Unfortunately, their whole whaling thing doesn't jive well with the Left's perception of progressive Scandinavia.

That would be pretty awkward if during next year's Nobel's and the Left of the world was lecturing everyone on environmentalism and so on while there were whaling protests going on.

And we wonder why the Chinese were a little ticked by the sanctimony. You don't think they noticed those whaling people making a stink about an Asian nation in relation to a progressive issue, while those same people ignored that issue being practiced by the Nobel host nation?

The Japanese have been pretty good sports about the whole being nuked and occupied thing, let em' have 500 non-endangered whales a year and spare them the sanctimonious values lecturing.
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mises



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of the species of whales that are killed are endangered.

Quote:
And we wonder why the Chinese were a little ticked by the sanctimony. You don't think they noticed those whaling people making a stink about an Asian nation in relation to a progressive issue, while those same people ignored that issue being practiced by the Nobel host nation?

The Japanese have been pretty good sports about the whole being nuked and occupied thing, let em' have 500 non-endangered whales a year and spare them the sanctimonious values lecturing.


Oh my.
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jvalmer



Joined: 06 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As long as foreigners keep on lecturing Japan on whaling they will keep on whaling. It's mostly about face, and add to the fact the Norwegians and Icelanders get nowhere the same amount of international (western) pressure, it does hint of racism. The best thing to do is to get Japanese anti-whaling organizations to pressure the Japanese themselves.
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visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The amount they catch is entirely sustainable. The Japanese whalers catch mainly Minke; around 500 per year (out of over 1 million in the southern hemisphere alone, according to the International Whaling Commission). Whaling is no more cruel than any other form of meat consumption (probably less cruel than eating a factory farm pork chop, actually).

It also tastes quite good and is nutritious (I don't believe all the baloney about it being chalk full of mercury). I ate some last month on a trip to Tokyo -it was quite delicious, reasonably priced, and well prepared. No qualms about it.
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jvalmer



Joined: 06 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

visitorq wrote:
The Japanese whalers catch mainly Minke; around 500 per year (out of over 1 million in the southern hemisphere alone, according to the International Whaling Commission).

That's something we don't hear in the news... I say whale on then...
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West Coast Tatterdemalion



Joined: 31 Aug 2010

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whaling is completely unacceptable these days. This isn't the 1800's. There is no need for whaling anymore. I doubt that the Japanese have truly given up. I just don't see that happening. Therefore, I will continue to applaud those that interfere with their activities. And it should be applied across the board. I don't care if it is an Asian nation or a Scandanavian nation...it is wrong and should be stopped.

As far as the notion that the Japanese should be allowed to continue whaling because of being nuked and occupied in the past is quite obtuse. You know damn well that the Japanese would have never given up during WW2 without being nuked. The atomic bomb saved more lives than the destruction it caused. As far as occupation, Japan needed to be occupied(like Germany). They were brainwashed and, if not for occupation, would have simply continued their old ways. Why should whales suffer because of Japan's desire for the Great Asian Co-prosperity sphere?
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UknowsI



Joined: 16 Apr 2009

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

West Coast Tatterdemalion wrote:
Whaling is completely unacceptable these days. This isn't the 1800's. There is no need for whaling anymore.

May I ask why it is unacceptable? Most sources of food can today be substituted by other sources and are therefore not needed. That whaling is not needed is therefore not an argument unless you also think that eating for example lamb meat should be banned and that we should follow a mostly vegetarian diet.
Steelrails wrote:
As long as the whales aren't endangered I don't care if they are hunted.

If they are, obviously that's bad.

This is my opinion as well. The same goes for seal hunting. Protesters have to be more specific as they lose all of my support when they protest against hunting for example Harp Seals which there are 8 millions of or Minke whales which there are more than 1 million of.

If they demonstrate against the hunt on a different merit than extinction, then that can be acceptable too, but most of the time there are too few facts, too little focus and too much propaganda mostly based on the popularity of the animals in question.

In 1978, marine ecologist Jacques Cousteau criticized the focus on the seal hunt, arguing that it is entirely emotional:
Jacques Cousteau wrote:
We have to be logical. We have to aim our activity first to the endangered species. Those who are moved by the plight of the harp seal could also be moved by the plight of the pig - the way they are slaughtered is horrible.

I realise that this topic is about whaling and not sealing, but I think some of the arguments are the same.
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geldedgoat



Joined: 05 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As long as people continue to consume pork, chicken, beef, eggs, and milk harvested from commercial slaughterhouses and farms, places that employ practices that would make a medieval torturer blush, while at the same time condemning practices such as this, I'm just gonna laugh in their faces. So... ha.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really hope the protesters of whaling, in their victory, choose to devote funds to whaling staff re-training and unemployment benefits.

Other than that, I agree with the opinions expressed in this documentary.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

geldedgoat wrote:
As long as people continue to consume pork, chicken, beef, eggs, and milk harvested from commercial slaughterhouses and farms, places that employ practices that would make a medieval torturer blush, while at the same time condemning practices such as this, I'm just gonna laugh in their faces. So... ha.


Out of curiosity, then, what do you say to vegans who condemn practices such as this?
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geldedgoat



Joined: 05 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox wrote:
Out of curiosity, then, what do you say to vegans who condemn practices such as this?


Their efforts should really be directed at the aforementioned slaughterhouses and farms. ...unless, like Steelrails mentioned, the whales being hunted are actually endangered.
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jrwhite82



Joined: 22 May 2010

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the SS eat an entirely vegan diet during their trips to interfere with Japanese whaling. I don't see a problem with what the SS are doing. They picked their battle and are going for protecting whales and other aquatic life. Saying they should focus on stoping slaughter houses or meat farms is like saying every scientist should stop what they are doing to focus on curing cancer instead of working on other problems and diseases simultaneously. Why do it like that?

The southern ocean is supposed to be a whale sanctuary. Endangered or not, whales are not supposed to be hunted there. (Squirrels aren't endangerd...but would you like your neighbor coming into your backyard to blasting away with a shotgun?) The Japanese have agreed to this but are using a loophole to hunt whales in an illegal manner. Hunting of whales is permitted for some populations for cultural reasons. These indigenous tribes are not using fleets of ships and factory vessels to turn large profits on meat from nature preserves.
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geldedgoat



Joined: 05 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrwhite82 wrote:
Saying they should focus on stoping slaughter houses or meat farms is like saying every scientist should stop what they are doing to focus on curing cancer instead of working on other problems and diseases simultaneously. Why do it like that?


Every meal served with whale meat instead of chicken, pork, or beef, is a meal that has not actively supported needless torture. Every scientist dedicated to researching diseases other than cancer is not a scientist that is actively encouraging the spread of cancer.

Also, I'm fairly certain that the scientists out there researching the next best waterproof mascara don't pretend to devote their lives to the cure for cancer. The Sea Shepherd folks, on the other hand, adopt the role of animal saviors and yet choose to target an extremely minor incident while multi-billion dollar industries thrive on the sadistic torture of animals. From their website: "[T]here is a big difference in hunting down endangered species in the wild and the slaughter of domestic animals." They're right. Unfortunately they just don't seem to understand what that difference is.

Quote:
Endangered or not, whales are not supposed to be hunted there.


Why does it matter if they're hunted there if the act has little to no impact on the species' survival?

Quote:
Squirrels aren't endangerd...but would you like your neighbor coming into your backyard to blasting away with a shotgun?


Right, because discharging firearms on my property is perfectly equivalent to fishing in international waters.

Quote:
Hunting of whales is permitted for some populations for cultural reasons. These indigenous tribes are not using fleets of ships and factory vessels to turn large profits on meat from nature preserves.


And the Japanese culture doesn't qualify for concern... why, exactly?
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West Coast Tatterdemalion



Joined: 31 Aug 2010

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, what a surprise. I knew that someone would come out with the usual, "well, people eat chicken and beef, so eating whale is okay." Rolling Eyes Just like when you mention that you are vegetarian and people say, "what about the plants?" Rolling Eyes Yep, nothing like rolling that out to desperately make a point out of thin air Rolling Eyes . And I do advocate a vegetarian/vegan diet. I will try to make it simple for you to understand: Eating whale is not necessary because there are plenty of other options out there that don't involve painful death. It's not too tough to understand and I believe that you might actually learn something from it. At least I hope so.
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