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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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 Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:59 pm Post subject: Communism is like Camping! |
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Consider what happens when you swap your wage-slavery for a rucksack: adult hierarchy is flattened, utensils and resources are pooled. Tasks are performed as a unit: you may lay on the food, but your friend is a better cook, and her boyfriend will clean the dishes. There is no question of people being paid differently for different tasks.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jul/13/camping-for-communists-brain-food |
Seems a reasonable analogy so far?
Selected comments by readers:
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| A better analogy with communism would be a system where you are forced to go camping and if you dissent you are killed |
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| All possible for a week of escapism but try doing it in Britain during winter and the "practical socialism" will vanish in favour of gas heating, TV and individualism. |
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| Has the Guardian sacked all its editors? This kind of article is making the Guardian a laughing stock. |
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| I LOVE camping!!! The trouble is my wife is a born commissar- she loves hotels. |
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| Societies are far more complex than small groups |
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The author of this nonsense is not, as it turns out, an undergraduate student who has been up all night smoking a little too much of mother nature. He is the "economics leader writer" for the Guardian.
This explains a lot, so - despite being sociologically and economically illiterate - it is a very useful article in other ways. |
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| Ever consider the dynamic of your trip had little or no relevance to how a macro political system should operate? |
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| I�d not made the connection before but this explains why camping is such an awful, miserable experience. |
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| Seems to me that the Guardian [is] undertaking a different kind of socialist experiment - letting random people in off the street to have a go at being a journalist in a bid to reduce unemployment. |
And finally. . .
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There were loads campers under the Communists.
Concentration campers. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| I have to say, none of my experiences with camping left me feeling, "Hey, I'd love to live my life in a society modelled entirely upon this experience." I think there are good arguments for certain sectors of the economy being socialized, but they don't have anything to do with camping, even in some vague metaphoric sense. |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| The Guardian Opinion is where good sense goes to die. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:21 am Post subject: |
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| Wrong forum. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
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What? |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| Wrong forum. |
What? |
This is not a current event. Try general. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 8:29 am Post subject: |
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OK. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| I think small scale communism could be like camping, liking hippies living in communes and what not. Bit of a random question, are people who advocate living in communes, or communal living, communists? |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| I think small scale communism could be like camping, liking hippies living in communes and what not. Bit of a random question, are people who advocate living in communes, or communal living, communists? |
Yes, but the accent is on the second syllable. |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| I think small scale communism could be like camping, liking hippies living in communes and what not. Bit of a random question, are people who advocate living in communes, or communal living, communists? |
No, Gary the aging 60s hippie is not a communist.
Communists advocate the forceful and violent overthrow of existing societies and global revolution. Marx, Engels, Lenin, Castro. Other communists are satisfied with just taking their own countries down with them, Mao, Stalin.
If you were unaware of the distinction, its forgivable. But it is unacceptable for an editor of the Guardian to be unaware of the indelible historical meaning of the word Communism. |
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recessiontime
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:46 am Post subject: |
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| The Happy Warrior wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| I think small scale communism could be like camping, liking hippies living in communes and what not. Bit of a random question, are people who advocate living in communes, or communal living, communists? |
No, Gary the aging 60s hippie is not a communist.
Communists advocate the forceful and violent overthrow of existing societies and global revolution. Marx, Engels, Lenin, Castro. Other communists are satisfied with just taking their own countries down with them, Mao, Stalin.
If you were unaware of the distinction, its forgivable. But it is unacceptable for an editor of the Guardian to be unaware of the indelible historical meaning of the word Communism. |
The idea of communism is entirely based upon communal living, like that of a commune. The last bit of my post was kind of a joke, the first part was serious. Communes are "perfect" communism in action whereas the violence you talk about is a step towards state socialism which is a step towards the abolition of the state, which is a step towards communism. You sir do not seem to know the historical meaning of communism, which is forgivable because the violence is the only bit to have actually happened on a large scale. |
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beck's
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| I like the Ronald Regan quote that goes something like this---a communist is one who has read Marx and Engels, an anti-communist is one who understands them. |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| The Happy Warrior wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| I think small scale communism could be like camping, liking hippies living in communes and what not. Bit of a random question, are people who advocate living in communes, or communal living, communists? |
No, Gary the aging 60s hippie is not a communist.
Communists advocate the forceful and violent overthrow of existing societies and global revolution. Marx, Engels, Lenin, Castro. Other communists are satisfied with just taking their own countries down with them, Mao, Stalin.
If you were unaware of the distinction, its forgivable. But it is unacceptable for an editor of the Guardian to be unaware of the indelible historical meaning of the word Communism. |
The idea of communism is entirely based upon communal living, like that of a commune. The last bit of my post was kind of a joke, the first part was serious. Communes are "perfect" communism in action whereas the violence you talk about is a step towards state socialism which is a step towards the abolition of the state, which is a step towards communism. You sir do not seem to know the historical meaning of communism, which is forgivable because the violence is the only bit to have actually happened on a large scale. |
Its true that the bloody revolutions and land takeovers aimed first at something called state socialism, which was intended later to become communism. But central to Marxist doctrine was universal revolution, because he believed that even a small outpost of capitalism would corrupt a socialist/communist society. Save fascism, there's never been a more aggressive political philosophy.
That's why the idea of a "perfect" communism limited to a commune is contradictory to Marx's theories and the historical sense of the world communism. |
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