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FDNY
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
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 Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:03 pm Post subject: Will Korean Cities Always be at the Bottom of Rankings? |
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Today I saw the Ecoomist Intelligence Unit's 15 best cities to live in. The list is:
1. Vancouver, Canada
2. Melbourne, Australia
3. Vienna, Austria
4. Toronto, Canada
5. Calgary, Canada
6. Helsinki, Finland
7. Sydney, Australia
8. (equal) Perth, Australia
8. (equal) Adelaide, Australia
10. Auckland, New Zealand
Do you think Korea will EVER be even close to the top? The only big list I could find puts Seoul at number 87 out of 100. Here is that list:
1 ZURICH - Switzerland
2 GENEVA - Switzerland
3 VANCOUVER - Canada
3 VIENNA - Austria
5 AUCKLAND - New Zealand
5 DUSSELDORF - Germany
7 FRANKFURT - Germany
8 MUNICH - Germany
9 BERN - Switzerland
9 SYDNEY - Australia
11 COPENHAGEN - Denmark
12 WELLINGTON - New Zealand
13 AMSTERDAM - The Netherlands
14 BRUSSELS - Belgium
15 TORONTO - Canada
16 BERLIN - Germany
17 MELBOURNE - Australia
18 LUXEMBOURG - Luxembourg
18 OTTAWA - Canada
20 STOCKHOLM - Sweden
21 PERTH - Australia
22 MONTREAL - Canada
23 NURNBERG - Germany
24 CALGARY - Canada
24 HAMBURG - Germany
26 OSLO - Norway
27 DUBLIN - Ireland
27 HONOLULU, HI - United States
29 SAN FRANCISCO, CA - United States
30 ADELAIDE - Australia
30 HELSINKI - Finland
32 BRISBANE - Australia
33 PARIS - France
34 SINGAPORE - Singapore
35 TOKYO - Japan
36 LYON - France
36 BOSTON, MA - United States
38 YOKOHAMA - Japan
39 LONDON - United Kingdom
40 KOBE - Japan
41 BARCELONA - Spain
42 MADRID - Spain
42 OSAKA - Japan
44 WASHINGTON, DC - United States
44 CHICAGO, IL - United States
46 PORTLAND, OR - United States
47 LISBON - Portugal
48 NEW YORK CITY, NY - United States
49 MILAN - Italy
49 SEATTLE, WA - United States
51 LEXINGTON, KY - United States
52 PITTSBURGH, PA - United States
52 WINSTON SALEM, NC - United States
54 NAGOYA - Japan
55 BIRMINGHAM - United Kingdom
55 TSUKUBA - Japan
55 GLASGOW - United Kingdom
55 LOS ANGELES, CA - United States
59 CLEVELAND, OH - United States
60 MINNEAPOLIS, MN - United States
61 ROME - Italy
62 MIAMI, FL - United States
63 YOKKAICHI - Japan
64 DETROIT, MI - United States
64 ST. LOUIS, MO - United States
66 ATLANTA, GA - United States
67 LEIPZIG - Germany
68 HOUSTON, TX - United States
69 OMUTA - Japan
70 HONG KONG - Hong Kong
71 SAN JUAN - Puerto Rico
72 PRAGUE - Czech Republic
73 KATSUYAMA - Japan
74 BUDAPEST - Hungary
75 KUALA LUMPUR - Malaysia
76 MONTEVIDEO - Uruguay
77 PORT LOUIS - Mauritius
78 ATHENS - Greece
79 BUENOS AIRES - Argentina
80 LJUBLJANA - Slovenia
80 DUBAI - United Arab Emirates
82 VILNIUS - Lithuania
83 SANTIAGO - Chile
83 TAIPEI - Taiwan
85 CAPE TOWN - South Africa
85 WARSAW - Poland
87 SEOUL - South Korea
88 ABU DHABI - United Arab Emirates
89 TALLINN - Estonia
90 JOHANNESBURG - South Africa
91 LIMASSOL - Cyprus
92 RIGA - Latvia
92 PANAMA CITY - Panama
94 MONTERREY - Mexico
95 TUNIS - Tunisia
96 VICTORIA - Seychelles
97 PAPEETE - French Polynesia
97 PORT ELIZABETH - South Africa
99 BRATISLAVA - Slovakia
100 SHANGHAI - China
The criteria used is below. I have to admit Korea is pretty dismal for most of them.
safety Korea sucks
education Korea sucks
hygiene Korea sucks
health care Not bad
culture Korea sucks
environment Korea sucks
recreation Korea sucks
political Korea sucks
economic stability Korea sucks
public transportation Good
Wow, two things out of ten are OK. Korea has a long way to go. |
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Stalin84
Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Location: Haebangchon, Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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From the perspective of an English teacher, Seoul is actually pretty great. Better than Tokyo or a lot of Canadian cities, even.
The problem with these sorts of rankings is that they're assuming everyone has an average boomer-salary (between $40-60k per year). They don't take into account that no one who is entering the workforce now will ever make anywhere close to that salary and even if they do, they will never have nearly the amount of purchasing power.
In the top ten cities on this list, you'd have to be moderately wealthy to enjoy anywhere near the lifestyle that being average or a little poor would afford you in Seoul.
That being said, from a financial standpoint, I think Seoul is pretty good. It's cheap.
| Quote: |
| public transportation Good |
I'd say excellent. |
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daeguowl
Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| How many of the 86 above Seoul would rather live in than Seoul? Not many for me... |
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FDNY
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| daeguowl wrote: |
| How many of the 86 above Seoul would rather live in than Seoul? Not many for me... |
The choice is easy for me. Any place that doesn't have a winter that sucks where I can make good cash.
27 HONOLULU, HI - United States
34 SINGAPORE - Singapore
41 BARCELONA - Spain
42 MADRID - Spain
49 MILAN - Italy
61 ROME - Italy
62 MIAMI, FL - United States
70 HONG KONG - Hong Kong
71 SAN JUAN - Puerto Rico
75 KUALA LUMPUR - Malaysia
77 PORT LOUIS - Mauritius
78 ATHENS - Greece
79 BUENOS AIRES - Argentina
83 SANTIAGO - Chile |
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Hugo85
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:54 pm Post subject: Re: Will Korean Cities Always be at the Bottom of Rankings? |
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| FDNY wrote: |
education Korea sucks |
akshually... SK fares pretty well in education. |
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dongjak
Joined: 30 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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That list puts Detroit at number 64. Have you been to Detroit???????
Also, number 9, Bern, Switzerland is one of the dullest cities in the world. |
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Kimchifart
Joined: 15 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:19 pm Post subject: Re: Will Korean Cities Always be at the Bottom of Rankings? |
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| Hugo85 wrote: |
| FDNY wrote: |
education Korea sucks |
akshually... SK fares pretty well in education. |
Speaking as a professor here (and only here) it really shouldn't fare well. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| There are no Asian cities in the top 30. And ranking Calgary and Ottawa higher than Seoul is highly suspect, I'm from Calgary and have spent some time in Ottawa BTW. Anyways, I like Seoul and no international ranking is going to change that. |
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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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With the exception of traffic safety, Seoul is one of the safest cities going.
Education is free (with the exception of hagwons) and they consistently rank in the top 3 in the world. How does that suck exactly?
Hygiene I'll give you. The no soap in the bathroom thing is still a mind bottler.
Health Care - Cheap doctor's visits. Cheap pharmacy. Pretty damn good IMO.
Culture - Seoul has great culture. More than Atlanta, St. Louis, Detroit(WTF?!), Cleveland (LOL!), Pitsburgh!, Melbourne... These US cities on here are a joke...Detroit?!?!?!
Environment - Not much in Seoul...
Political - Could improve
Economy - Doing better than Detroit!
Public Transit - Seoul is amazing! Just ok...are you kidding?!
This list is a joke. No offense to any Detroit readers on the board, but there's a reason why you're in Korea and not in Detroit.... |
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| There are no Asian cities in the top 30. And ranking Calgary and Ottawa higher than Seoul is highly suspect, I'm from Calgary and have spent some time in Ottawa BTW. Anyways, I like Seoul and no international ranking is going to change that. |
Yup. I spent the better part of 10 years in Calgary. There is really no reason for it to be above Seoul. Even living downtown and working directly on 1 of the 2 train lines it was still a bit of a hassle to get to work.
Traffic is a joke there, rush hour is on par with rush hour here. The busy roads clog right up there as well. The rest of public transit there is a joke.
Hospitals are crowded, waiting lines to get a family doctor, and no one who lives in Calgary for any amount of time doesn't complain about the lack of culture. It was a monthly complaint in the papers by some group while I lived there.
Environmentally it might be a little better off than Seoul, but if you actually poke around there are some nice parks and things in Seoul, and with the new renovations some of the river spots are quite nice as well.
The big problem with a lot of these lists is that they never adjust for anything. They usually base everything on a western perspective and what a westerner would do at home and how they'd live and how much it would cost/be inconvenient to do exactly the same thing in another city.
The last time we had that "most expensive" cities list, they were basically just making up numbers for how much stuff cost in Seoul, claiming 3-4x the price you'd pay even at 7-11 here.
These lists are pretty useless to be honest. |
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Kimchifart
Joined: 15 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| jrwhite82 wrote: |
Education is free (with the exception of hagwons) and they consistently rank in the top 3 in the world. How does that suck exactly?
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I'm guessing those ranks look at stats for the amount of people in education and affordability; I'm wondering how they assessed quality. |
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Kimchifart
Joined: 15 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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I'lll give it this:
Hygiene: Poor but not bad when compared with some other countries.
Education: Good in some areas, awful, truly awful in others, especially higher ed.
Weather: Good for two seasons, awful for two seasons. (They have four seasons you know)
Transport: Bloody excellent within Seoul. Most importantly it's affordable. Outside Seoul it can be inconsistent and country buses are shocking, but cheap I suppose.
Crime: Bloody excellent, especially for the more unpleasant violent types of crime and theft.
Culture (e.g. arts, stuff to do etc.): Virtually non existent aside from the odd, usually poor exhibition here and there. Generally the culture is very bland and repetitive.
Leisure: Very limited, no open spaces.
Last edited by Kimchifart on Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I'm guessing those ranks look at stats for the amount of people in education and affordability; I'm wondering how they assessed quality. |
I agree...and that is also going to be subjective.
For those of you that say Korean education sucks...I dare you to go to a school that is not in Suburban America. Take two steps into an ELEMENTARY school in Baltimore/DC/Detroit/NY/Newark/Philly.... and you will wish you were in your worst school in Korea.
Last edited by jrwhite82 on Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Kimchifart
Joined: 15 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| jrwhite82 wrote: |
I agree...and that is also going to be subjective.
For those of you that say Korean education sucks...I dare you to go to a school that is not in Suburban/White America. Take two steps into an ELEMENTARY school in Baltimore/DC/Detroit/NY/Newark/Philly.... and you will wish you were in your worst school in Korea. |
True. It's not the worst, but the higher education in this country does truly suck in terms of adherence to standards. What you're pointing out above is more to do with society than education. If you live in what is essentially a few levels below a warzone, the schools aren't going to be great either! |
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MacLean
Joined: 14 Feb 2011
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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Wow! Eight out of the top ten are Commonwealth cities - from Canada, Australia and NZ. That's something to be proud of. Whatever Britain's faults, it knew how to produce successful offspring.  |
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