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sadguy
Joined: 13 Feb 2011
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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 Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| This proves the old saying " dont believe everything you read." Name a Chinese winner of a science Nobel. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
| This proves the old saying " dont believe everything you read." Name a Chinese winner of a science Nobel. |
Nobels are not a measure of the effectiveness of a public school education system.
Nobels are reflective of University education, not K12.
What good is a school system that produces 1 Nobel prize winner and leaves 100s in the dust? |
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nathanrutledge
Joined: 01 May 2008
Location: Marakesh
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| rollo wrote: |
| This proves the old saying " dont believe everything you read." Name a Chinese winner of a science Nobel. |
Nobels are not a measure of the effectiveness of a public school education system.
Nobels are reflective of University education, not K12.
What good is a school system that produces 1 Nobel prize winner and leaves 100s in the dust? |
What good is a system that forces 100's through programs they have no interest in?
American schools are still the best in the world, IMO. They don't force students to work - they leave that job to the parents. I'd go head to head against any other student from anywhere else in the world and feel confident in my ability to compete at the same level, except happiness - I'd blow them out of the water. Seriously, look at Asian students - how many of them are truly happy studying what they're forced to study? How many of them could be the next Beethoven or Elvis if they could focus on music? How many Michelangelos and Picassos are being destroyed by not having art programs?
The numbers don't tell the whole story, not by a long shot. |
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Caffeinated
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
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sadguy
Joined: 13 Feb 2011
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| nathanrutledge wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| rollo wrote: |
| This proves the old saying " dont believe everything you read." Name a Chinese winner of a science Nobel. |
Nobels are not a measure of the effectiveness of a public school education system.
Nobels are reflective of University education, not K12.
What good is a school system that produces 1 Nobel prize winner and leaves 100s in the dust? |
What good is a system that forces 100's through programs they have no interest in?
American schools are still the best in the world, IMO. They don't force students to work - they leave that job to the parents. I'd go head to head against any other student from anywhere else in the world and feel confident in my ability to compete at the same level, except happiness - I'd blow them out of the water. Seriously, look at Asian students - how many of them are truly happy studying what they're forced to study? How many of them could be the next Beethoven or Elvis if they could focus on music? How many Michelangelos and Picassos are being destroyed by not having art programs?
The numbers don't tell the whole story, not by a long shot. |
the art scene in china has been on a rise for quite some time.
japanese artists are pretty amazing too.
and also, when was the last time you were a k-12 student? i think things have changed since then. |
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nathanrutledge
Joined: 01 May 2008
Location: Marakesh
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| sadguy wrote: |
the art scene in china has been on a rise for quite some time.
japanese artists are pretty amazing too.
and also, when was the last time you were a k-12 student? i think things have changed since then. |
Talking from practical experience as a student, as someone with a younger brother and sister, having been in the schools back home, my claim is that their are more options in public schools in the US than there are in public schools in China. I don't think things have changed at all. After middle school, I didn't take another art class, whereas my brother took about 8. I did 5 years of Spanish from 8-12 grade whereas no one was required to take any if they didn't want to.
I'm not saying that these countries don't have artists. Personally, I don't think that art can really be taught - school only helps an artist hone and focus energies. I'm saying that someone who wants to spend time on focusing their energies is going to find little in the way of public education to help him in that regard. Sure, private study is available, but we all know how much students in Asia study IN school, let alone at private academies. The opportunity is the key. |
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ThingsComeAround
Joined: 07 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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Looking at the priorities of the US and priorities in Asian countries, literacy isn't a major concern for US pols, slashing budgets from education is. When we turn around and give the cash to the banks it really doesn't do the US populous any good in the long run. We may have had some great writers in our time, but now 'writing' is mostly done for blogs/media. We lost a big drive to remain an intellectual powerhouse.
A few months back China demanded all their scientific journals be all in Chinese. IMO, this was done so they can gain and hold onto an edge over the West, should they (Chinese) make scientific breakthroughs the West will not gain from it so easily. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| The test results are from Shanghai, which is hardly all of China, or even that represenative of all of China. Considering that large protions of China are basically still in the third world I really wouldn't be too worried about it. Also, perhaps most importantly, the U.S. has the world's best university system. |
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sadguy
Joined: 13 Feb 2011
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| The test results are from Shanghai, which is hardly all of China, or even that represenative of all of China. Considering that large protions of China are basically still in the third world I really wouldn't be too worried about it. Also, perhaps most importantly, the U.S. has the world's best university system. |
i think it's time to start worrying. have you seen "waiting for superman?" the documentary about the education system in america? it might be easy to say that the school systems aren't that bad if you were a middle class kid growing up in a suburb where schools got proper funding. fortunately i was one of those kids, but when i was in uni, i did mentoring and tutoring for inner city kids and it's pretty bad. |
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nathanrutledge
Joined: 01 May 2008
Location: Marakesh
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:08 am Post subject: |
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| sadguy wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| The test results are from Shanghai, which is hardly all of China, or even that represenative of all of China. Considering that large protions of China are basically still in the third world I really wouldn't be too worried about it. Also, perhaps most importantly, the U.S. has the world's best university system. |
i think it's time to start worrying. have you seen "waiting for superman?" the documentary about the education system in america? it might be easy to say that the school systems aren't that bad if you were a middle class kid growing up in a suburb where schools got proper funding. fortunately i was one of those kids, but when i was in uni, i did mentoring and tutoring for inner city kids and it's pretty bad. |
The question is: is the situation bad because of a lack of government involvement or a lack of parental involvement? If you look at the numbers, spending on education has risen drastically but improvements haven't followed.
http://www.visualeconomics.com/how-countries-spend-their-money/
A quick search on google found this site. The US spends more on education than the Chinese do, both as a percentage of budget AND in gross dollars, but we do worse. Sure, money helps, but only so much. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:59 am Post subject: |
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| US education has always lagged behind from K-12. Its higher education where the US excels. |
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conrad2
Joined: 05 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:22 am Post subject: |
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| US K-12 education can be summed up this way " You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink." |
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buster brown
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:59 am Post subject: |
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I've always been skeptical of these types of tests. Having taught in Korea for 5 years and China for 2, I suspect that the educational administrators in both of those countries cherry-pick the groups of students who are included in this type of study. Although I agree that inner-city US schools aren't good...they're far ahead of anything in the Chinese countryside, where the majority of the population lives. Korea is a different story as many low-achieving students are funneled into vocational programs and no attempt is made to educate them equally.
Talk to some of your Korean friends and ask about the results of testing between different countries. They'll likely agree that students from low to mid-level schools aren't included in this type of testing. I would bet that US schools report on a cross-section that's relatively typical of the entire school population. |
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D.D.
Joined: 29 May 2008
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| chinese students are good test writers and chinese teachers are masters of making test results seam favourable. |
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