Korean Job Discussion Forums

[jaywood42]

OK, here is a sentence that the Korean teachers want to put on a test. I'm not great at grammar so I don't really know which is better. Any grammarians out there? Either way I think it's a bit much to expect from a High School Student.


"According to the institute, the Korean fir tree is a native evergreen, (which/that)grows in Mt. Halla and Mt. Jiri in Korea."


I've been looking online for the rules but my head is starting to hurt.

Grammar Police! Help!

[Underwaterbob]

It's a bit iffy, but I'd say "that" is a better choice since the final clause is contained within commas and is thus an essential clause. You could also argue that the final clause is non-essential and the comma after "evergreen" shouldn't be there.

http://www.grammarbook.com/grammar/whoVwhVt.asp

[murmanjake]

http://unenlightenedenglish.com/2009/04/that-vs-which-restrictive-and-non-restrictive-clauses

I like this explanation.

I've just finished editing a series of TOEFL books. The writer just loved throwing ambiguous options in there just on the basis of some obscure grammar rule. That and which are interchangeable a lot of the time but not always and depending on how casual you want to be. To expect a non-native speaker to know this when most native-speaker college grads wouldn't is ludicrous.

[jaywood42]

Man, you guys are fast!

I appreciate the input and will look into those links but I think we all agree the question is probably not cool to be asking on a High School mid-term.

By the way, the Korean teacher is saying "which" is the correct answer. I can only add my input and let them do what they want in the end.

Thanks again for the speedy replies.

[edwardcatflap]

I'd explain it in terms of defining and non defining relative clauses. Does the sentence define which evergreen it is or add extra information? In this case, as commas are present, it means the sentence is non-defining and therefore 'that' should not be used.

[murmanjake]

Here's a debate over whether or not they are interchangeable.

http://www.debate.org/debates/The-Relative-Pronouns-That-and-Which/1/

It's obviously not cut and dry. Try to make the teachers understand that this is something which Linguistics professors argue over and not material for a high school exam.

[jaywood42]

Ooooo I like the link murmanjake sent the best. I'm going with the argument that the difference is negligible. Thanks everybody for the input.
English be so crazy!

[edwardcatflap]

I agree the sentence the OP mentions sounds ok with both but sometimes in non-defining relative clauses my students write, �that� sounds bad to me.

e.g. �Seoul, that is the capital of Korea, is located in the North East.
�Rain, that is a good singer and dancer, is Korean�

[The Cosmic Hum]

I think it is relatively safe to say that in upper level grammar circles, 'that' is used almost exclusively within defining (restrictive) relative clauses, and 'which' has the flexibility to be used in both.

If commas are involved, as already mentioned, then 'which' would be the grammatically superior choice at this stage in the relative clause evolution.

Without the commas, either 'that' or 'which' can be used without too much confusion.
There is a fair bit of debate about this last point.

Certainly, this is an advanced grammar construction...not sure how advanced your high school students are.

As for the OP...'which' is the better answer...I have yet to see a legitimate grammar text teach 'that' as an option in non-defining relative clauses.

...perhaps at this stage it might be better to go with 'which' and have people think that your students are being overly formal, than to choose 'that' and have others think they are grammatically challenged.

...just a thought...go with whatever suits your fancy.