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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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 Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:39 pm Post subject: The Loneliness of the Civil Libertarian Feminist |
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Feminism once included defense of free expression, but today's version prefers censorship
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That simplistic, practically hysterical anti-libertarian approach to offensive speech appears to be shared by the Obama administration. OCR has initiated an investigation of alleged civil-rights violations at Yale, and, coincidentally, on April 4th, it issued a "Dear Colleague" letter to schools, colleges, and universities nationwide, clarifying their obligations to prevent and address sexual harassment. OCR's letter conflates harassment and rape. It defines sexual harassment as "including" sexual violence and ignores the conflicts between sexual harassment regulations and free speech, or, in public schools, the constitutional limits on regulating "offensive" speech. Given OCR's expansive and potentially repressive approach to punishing and preventing "bullying," it's not surprising but still distressing to find no concern for speech in its letter on harassment.
The only nod to civil liberty in OCR's letter is a reminder that students accused of sexual harassment (including sexual violence) should be accorded due process. Indeed, "(p)ublic and state-supported schools must provide due process to the alleged perpetrator" -- but not too much due process, it seems: "However, schools should ensure that steps taken to accord due process rights to the alleged perpetrator do not restrict or unnecessarily delay the Title IX protections for the complainant." This suggests, oddly and ominously, that the statutory rights of the accuser trump the constitutional due-process rights of the accused. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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She's so obviously correct that it's hard to even say much. I'm no extremist when it comes to liberty, but within the bounds of the topic she's talking about I completely agree with her that the war against sexism (and racism, and drug use, and many other things for that matter) has completely over-stepped its bounds.
Unambiguously agreeing with people isn't a mode of conversation I'm well suited for. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:08 am Post subject: |
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| A lot of this nonsense would stop if there were two or three Lorena Bobbits at Yale. Consequences to actions often have a clarifying effect. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| A lot of this nonsense would stop if there were two or three Lorena Bobbits at Yale. Consequences to actions often have a clarifying effect. |
EnglishMatt (with minor edits):
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And then we can all have a good laugh about {men} being violently {assulted} to the point that their reproductive organs suffer permanent damage.
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If you think that is the sort of joke that should be tolerated and worse if you find it funny, then you are sick. |
I assume EM will be going to the mods again?
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OK, here's a funny video. Well, funny to me:
Dear Woman:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_uRIMUBnvw
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| I completely agree with her that the war against sexism (and racism, and drug use, and many other things for that matter) has completely over-stepped its bounds. |
We're at war with ourselves, and a bunch of nations too. We're very unhealthy. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
Ya-ta Boy wrote:
A lot of this nonsense would stop if there were two or three Lorena Bobbits at Yale. Consequences to actions often have a clarifying effect.
EnglishMatt (with minor edits):
Quote:
And then we can all have a good laugh about {men} being violently {assulted} to the point that their reproductive organs suffer permanent damage.
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If you think that is the sort of joke that should be tolerated and worse if you find it funny, then you are sick. |
Nailed it. |
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Madigan
Joined: 15 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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That video wasn't funny, it was nauseating. Were they serious? I hope not. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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This is the feminist end game right here. Men behaving like this. |
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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| A lot of this nonsense would stop if there were two or three Lorena Bobbits at Yale. Consequences to actions often have a clarifying effect. |
EnglishMatt (with minor edits):
| Quote: |
And then we can all have a good laugh about {men} being violently {assulted} to the point that their reproductive organs suffer permanent damage.
...
If you think that is the sort of joke that should be tolerated and worse if you find it funny, then you are sick. |
I assume EM will be going to the mods again?
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Why should he? He's a feminist, not a masculist. I bet he'd dress up as Lorena Bobbitt in a heartbeat.
OMG! Did you actually make it through the whole thing?  |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
This is the feminist end game right here. Men behaving like this. |
Even more amusing to me is that desirable women do not romantically involve themselves with dudes like that. We all know the type.. The guy who spends his life being a shoulder to cry on, who sends flowers, who helps 8's move into apartments yet can't get laid to save his life. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
This is the feminist end game right here. Men behaving like this. |
Even more amusing to me is that desirable women do not romantically involve themselves with dudes like that. We all know the type.. The guy who spends his life being a shoulder to cry on, who sends flowers, who helps 8's move into apartments yet can't get laid to save his life. |
If you just had more respect for the divine female essence and its creative (yet perpetually oppressed, in every society, everywhere, since forever) wisdom you'd see that the relationship these men have with the women around them is more fulfilling and valuable than any romantic and sexual relationship could ever be. You need to become a conscious man, and that's going to involve less doing what you think is reasonable, and more apologizing for things you've never actually done.
| Space Bar wrote: |
| OMG! Did you actually make it through the whole thing? |
Did anyone here actually make it through the full video? After about 2 minutes, I became convinced that the words weren't going to suddenly change to the lyrics of that "Rick Roll" song and just started speed clicking my way through. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
This is the feminist end game right here. Men behaving like this. |
Even more amusing to me is that desirable women do not romantically involve themselves with dudes like that. We all know the type.. The guy who spends his life being a shoulder to cry on, who sends flowers, who helps 8's move into apartments yet can't get laid to save his life. |
Yeah, that's a truism.
Last edited by Kuros on Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Squire
Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Location: Jeollanam-do
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| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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That video was the soppiest, wettest, and most emasculating spectacle I've ever witnessed. How these little girls (no sexist) have even even an ounce of self respect I'll never know
Also the two or three minutes I watched were painfully patronising |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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Madigan
Joined: 15 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
This is the feminist end game right here. Men behaving like this. |
Even more amusing to me is that desirable women do not romantically involve themselves with dudes like that. We all know the type.. The guy who spends his life being a shoulder to cry on, who sends flowers, who helps 8's move into apartments yet can't get laid to save his life. |
If you just had more respect for the divine female essence and its creative (yet perpetually oppressed, in every society, everywhere, since forever) wisdom you'd see that the relationship these men have with the women around them is more fulfilling and valuable than any romantic and sexual relationship could ever be. You need to become a conscious man, and that's going to involve less doing what you think is reasonable, and more apologizing for things you've never actually done.
| Space Bar wrote: |
| OMG! Did you actually make it through the whole thing? |
Did anyone here actually make it through the full video? After about 2 minutes, I became convinced that the words weren't going to suddenly change to the lyrics of that "Rick Roll" song and just started speed clicking my way through. |
I got through 4 minutes and gave up. |
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