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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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 Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:22 am Post subject: Amazon admits to censorship |
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They are guilty, as they have now pulled the book:
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�The Pedophile�s Guide to Love and Pleasure,� written and published by Phillip R. Greaves, has been on sale since Oct. 28, according to Seattle-based Amazon, which defended its decision to sell the book.
The guide has received 513 customer reviews, 498 of them giving it one star. Users also associated tags, or categories, to the guide. The most commonly used was �offensive,� followed by �disgusting.� Amazon said pulling the book from its online store would be censorship. |
Parry Aftab is executive director of Wired Safety, a New York-based nonprofit group that promotes safe use of technology by children, got it right. She said a decision to pull the book would only draw more attention to it.
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| There are better ways of dealing with this issue than having Amazon not sell it. The more noise that people make about it, the more people will buy it. |
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-11-10/amazon-com-irks-users-over-pedophile-guide-sale-defends-move.html |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| I'm ok with this. |
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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| I'm ok with this. |
Censorship? |
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sharkey
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| You think guides to pedophilia, dog fighting and other outrageous titles should be available? |
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conrad2
Joined: 05 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:12 am Post subject: |
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| Buy my book " The Secret Effective Method of How to Kill Every Person on Earth" |
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conrad2
Joined: 05 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:15 am Post subject: |
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| And a private business deciding not to carry a product is not censorship. |
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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:42 am Post subject: |
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| Space Bar wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| I'm ok with this. |
Censorship? |
This is not censorship. It is a business decision and a smart one at that.
You as a consumer have the right to purchase books from a company that selects its titles based on what it feels is right. Or you can shop at a company that will sell anything under the sun. That is your right as a consumer as well. Its not censorship.
Nice try making this into a constitutional issue.... 
Space Bar = bacaspar??? |
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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:52 am Post subject: |
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| conrad wrote: |
| And a private business deciding not to carry a product is not censorship. |
| jrwhite82 wrote: |
| Space Bar wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| I'm ok with this. |
Censorship? |
This is not censorship. It is a business decision and a smart one at that.
You as a consumer have the right to purchase books from a company that selects its titles based on what it feels is right. Or you can shop at a company that will sell anything under the sun. That is your right as a consumer as well. Its not censorship.
Nice try making this into a constitutional issue.... |
Thanks for making it plain that you fail to properly comprehend.
I did not try to make anything a constitutional issue, and it was
| Amazon itself that wrote: |
| pulling the book from its online store would be censorship. |
If you've got an issue, it is with Amazon.
So I've made a list of books that I'm offended by which I will submit to Amazon, and I think everybody should do the same. Maybe we can get them to censor everything. I think I'll start with that book where a guy hears a voice telling him to kill his own son, and he actually tries to do it! Surely, you cannot be in favor of that one, can you? |
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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:03 am Post subject: |
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| sharkey wrote: |
| You think guides to pedophilia, dog fighting and other outrageous titles should be available? |
Of course not! I think only books about motherhood, apple pie, or sharkey-approved should be available.
This post, from the book's Amazon discussion forum, is germane:
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What has happened here is that a small group of ppl have taken their internal "borders" of what THEY see as right and wrong and they have forced them onto the rest of us, who may not share those views of right and wrong. In forcing their will upon the nuetral entity (Amazon) to remove the work, they have also removed everyone elses personal choice of whether or not THEY would like to read the book... They have just censored the publics freedom to make choices for ourselves -through- Amazon.com and gotten away with it!!!!
They formed a lynch mob the second they saw the word "pedophile" on the screen and without anyone ever even reading the book in question they were able to get a company the size of Amazon.com to reverse their censorship policies overnight!!!!!!
That's what this is all about! Not Amazon, and NOT the stupid book. AND DEFINATELY NOT PEDOPHILIA!!!!!!!! The fact that there is a group of ppl out there who has this kind of pull and connections at the top levels of our media and can pull off what they just did, is a very dangerous thing! Don't think for one minute that the only thing that these ppl did was to make posts in this forum! lol!
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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:44 am Post subject: |
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| Space Bar wrote: |
| conrad wrote: |
| And a private business deciding not to carry a product is not censorship. |
| jrwhite82 wrote: |
| Space Bar wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| I'm ok with this. |
Censorship? |
This is not censorship. It is a business decision and a smart one at that.
You as a consumer have the right to purchase books from a company that selects its titles based on what it feels is right. Or you can shop at a company that will sell anything under the sun. That is your right as a consumer as well. Its not censorship.
Nice try making this into a constitutional issue.... |
Thanks for making it plain that you fail to properly comprehend.
I did not try to make anything a constitutional issue, and it was
| Amazon itself that wrote: |
| pulling the book from its online store would be censorship. |
If you've got an issue, it is with Amazon.
So I've made a list of books that I'm offended by which I will submit to Amazon, and I think everybody should do the same. Maybe we can get them to censor everything. I think I'll start with that book where a guy hears a voice telling him to kill his own son, and he actually tries to do it! Surely, you cannot be in favor of that one, can you? |
Bacasper....you are always trying to make everything a constitutional issue.
And being that this issue is about molestation, I am sure that you are in fact Bacasper. Call it a hunch....
I don't see people getting upset about a guide on how to molest children as being such a ridiculous thing. In fact it is quite reasonable.
Self censorship is not a bad thing at all. Maybe you should try it sometime. 
All kidding aside. I don't see the issue with a group of people upset about something voicing their concern and enacting change. I'm pretty sure that is what our country is founded on. If I recall correctly, leading up to the revolution there was only a small number of people (the richest and whitest) who wanted to actually fight Britain.
I think it would be a good idea to write Amazon and tell them what you think of their services. I write companies all the time if I am unhappy with them. Often, I get a call, an explanation, an apology, a change in policy, something for free or a great deal! If not, I don't patronize their companies anymore. The $ speaks loudest.
I used to work retail at a large department store a few years ago to earn some extra scratch. I was using their shop online service one day and I happened across a number of anime porn movies that were being sold by a 3rd party vendor. I told my manager and within 48 hours, the movies disappeared from the website. I felt pretty good about finding that because it might have saved our company some embarrassment. As you know, Amazon is full of 3rd party vendors. It is easy for things to slip through the cracks that go against their company policies. First, it doesn't mean they should be crucified for it. Second, self censorship is not even news worthy.
Edit: One other thought...would you be ok with censoring the people who want to censor things?? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:53 am Post subject: |
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| Space Bar, Freud was a fraud. |
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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| jrwhite82 wrote: |
I don't see people getting upset about a guide on how to molest children as being such a ridiculous thing. In fact it is quite reasonable.
Self censorship is not a bad thing at all. Maybe you should try it sometime.
All kidding aside. I don't see the issue with a group of people upset about something voicing their concern and enacting change. I'm pretty sure that is what our country is founded on. If I recall correctly, leading up to the revolution there was only a small number of people (the richest and whitest) who wanted to actually fight Britain.
I think it would be a good idea to write Amazon and tell them what you think of their services. I write companies all the time if I am unhappy with them. Often, I get a call, an explanation, an apology, a change in policy, something for free or a great deal! If not, I don't patronize their companies anymore. The $ speaks loudest.
I used to work retail at a large department store a few years ago to earn some extra scratch. I was using their shop online service one day and I happened across a number of anime porn movies that were being sold by a 3rd party vendor. I told my manager and within 48 hours, the movies disappeared from the website. I felt pretty good about finding that because it might have saved our company some embarrassment. As you know, Amazon is full of 3rd party vendors. It is easy for things to slip through the cracks that go against their company policies. First, it doesn't mean they should be crucified for it. Second, self censorship is not even news worthy.
Edit: One other thought...would you be ok with censoring the people who want to censor things?? |
No. Freedom of speech is absolute.
The issue here is not that difficult to grasp. At the end of the day Amazon said that pulling the book off its online store would be censorship, and then that is exactly what they did. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| I don't get it. Amazon is a business, it can sell or not sell whatever it wants. This is a non-issue. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| I don't get it. Amazon is a business, it can sell or not sell whatever it wants. This is a non-issue. |
Space Bar was educated in a paradigm where the suppression of anything related to sexuality is evidence of an Authoritarian Personality. What he doesn't know is that this paradigm was deliberately constructed to weaken the family in Europe and the United States.
Freud:
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| (Americans) don't realize we are bringing them the plague. |
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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| I don't get it. Amazon is a business, it can sell or not sell whatever it wants. This is a non-issue. |
Yes, it can. And if it pulls a book from sale, according to Amazon itself, it is censorship. Hence the title of this thread.
mises, got a source for that Freud quote?
Anyway, what I do know is that the argument for free speech goes for both sides. There is a right to say whatever and the right to argue against it. It is when the speech takes away the right to hear one or the other side that it becomes most important. The answer to speech that is disliked is more speech about what is liked, not to remove the former. |
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