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cybermutiny
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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 Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:37 pm Post subject: The fish that judge you -- observations of Korean culture |
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My Korean girlfriend told me that when she was a child, she was wary of being near a fish aquarium because no matter where she stood, the fish seemed to be staring at her, and more importantly, unceasingly judging her. She said she was always on her best behavior in front of those fish.
This story is cute but I thought it was also very illustrative of a culture that is fundamentally different than the one I was brought up with in America. It demonstrates a mindset that "no matter where you are, no matter what you do, you are being judged, so you better keep your behavior up to par."
I created an artwork in MS Paint and wrote some more stories related to this topic...you can view them here: http://paintavantgarde.blogspot.com/2011/02/pa-g-presents-fish-that-judge-you.html
What about you? I'd like to hear some stories or experiences you've had that really shed light onto the Korean culture. I think this whole topic is way more complicated than the simple "we are individualist and they are collectivist" story that we're told.
Last edited by cybermutiny on Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Menino80
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Location: Hodor?
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| Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| I find Korea to be very Catholic. Guilt, superstition, repression, extreme but private rejection of norms. Then back to guilt. |
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ESL Milk "Everyday
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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Not guilt, shame.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shame_society
Publicly, everything is fine... but privately, this country is realllllly messed up. And as long as no one knows about it, then it's perfectly fine... no matter what it is.
It also explains why people get so angry if you force their kid to spend time out in the hall. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:48 pm Post subject: Re: The fish that judge you -- observations of Korean cultur |
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| cybermutiny wrote: |
My Korean girlfriend told me that when she was a child, she was wary of being near a fish aquarium because no matter where she stood, the fish seemed to be staring at her, and more importantly, unceasingly judging her. She said she was always on her best behavior in front of those fish.
This story is cute but I thought it was also very illustrative of a culture that is fundamentally different than than one I was brought up with in America. It demonstrates a mindset that "no matter where you are, no matter what you do, you are being judged, so you better keep your behavior up to par."
I created an artwork in MS Paint and wrote some more stories related to this topic...you can view them here: http://paintavantgarde.blogspot.com/2011/02/pa-g-presents-fish-that-judge-you.html
What about you? I'd like to here some stories or experiences you've had that really shed light onto the Korean cultural. I think this whole topic is way more complicated than the simple "we are individualist and they are collectivist" story that we're told. |
Hate to break it to you, but pretty much everyone around the world is image conscious. You haven't stumbled onto some random new insight. People everywhere are worried about people judging them.
Take your jaywalking bit. No one cares about jaywalking back home, even in front of children. Now take smoking- the exact same reasons you wrote about for Koreans and jaywalking apply to Americans and smoking. So are they "so different"? No.
I think the idea that the people of different cultures are so vastly different is the biggest load of nonsense. People are the same- they want to get laid, make money, not be embarrassed, and do right by their family. Methods may vary, but you look at people's underlying motivations and its all the same. Human beings all suffer from the same vices and all engage in the same virtues. We are all not so far removed from our base evolutionary past that we are not subject to those impulses.
Welcome to the rest of the world. It's the same dance, just a different song.
Now I will say one thing that really caught me as different the legacy of the Cold War stuff. Of course in America we have traces of it still, but the kids' "Patriotic Speech to Resist the Communist Invader" day was pretty whack. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| I checked the link in the OP. Dude, I've no idea what Korea you're watching, but jaywalking is pretty prevalent in all three of the big cities I've lived in here and every small burg I've visited. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:38 am Post subject: Re: The fish that judge you -- observations of Korean cultur |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| cybermutiny wrote: |
My Korean girlfriend told me that when she was a child, she was wary of being near a fish aquarium because no matter where she stood, the fish seemed to be staring at her, and more importantly, unceasingly judging her. She said she was always on her best behavior in front of those fish.
This story is cute but I thought it was also very illustrative of a culture that is fundamentally different than than one I was brought up with in America. It demonstrates a mindset that "no matter where you are, no matter what you do, you are being judged, so you better keep your behavior up to par."
I created an artwork in MS Paint and wrote some more stories related to this topic...you can view them here: http://paintavantgarde.blogspot.com/2011/02/pa-g-presents-fish-that-judge-you.html
What about you? I'd like to here some stories or experiences you've had that really shed light onto the Korean cultural. I think this whole topic is way more complicated than the simple "we are individualist and they are collectivist" story that we're told. |
Hate to break it to you, but pretty much everyone around the world is image conscious. You haven't stumbled onto some random new insight. People everywhere are worried about people judging them.
Take your jaywalking bit. No one cares about jaywalking back home, even in front of children. Now take smoking- the exact same reasons you wrote about for Koreans and jaywalking apply to Americans and smoking. So are they "so different"? No.
I think the idea that the people of different cultures are so vastly different is the biggest load of nonsense. People are the same- they want to get laid, make money, not be embarrassed, and do right by their family. Methods may vary, but you look at people's underlying motivations and its all the same. Human beings all suffer from the same vices and all engage in the same virtues. We are all not so far removed from our base evolutionary past that we are not subject to those impulses.
Welcome to the rest of the world. It's the same dance, just a different song.
Now I will say one thing that really caught me as different the legacy of the Cold War stuff. Of course in America we have traces of it still, but the kids' "Patriotic Speech to Resist Communist Invader" day was pretty whack. |
Nope. Your continued assertion that everyone is the same everywhere is a bigger load of nonsense.
Your "nobody in the U.S. cares about jaywalking" comment is just more proof of how offbase your posts on this subject are. |
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flakfizer
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:19 am Post subject: |
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| In the eyes of the fish, we're all gill-free. |
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schwa
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Yap
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| Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:00 am Post subject: |
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I almost killed someone by jaywalking once. Light was red but I saw I had ample time to cross in front of oncoming cars. Person behind me followed blindly, assuming from my action that the light had changed, & very nearly got obliterated.
I'm much more cautious since. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:57 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Nope. Your continued assertion that everyone is the same everywhere is a bigger load of nonsense. |
You mean there are groups of people who don't follow the lifecycle of childhood to teenage angst to having to work to family to growing old and death?
You mean there are people out there (aside from a few isolated communities) that don't have to deal with taxes, a government that they gripe about, a boss/neighbor that drives them up the wall? A family that they love but also drives them nuts? Men look at women as existing for sex. Women drive men up the wall.
That's the major stuff in life. The stuff that people make a big deal about being different is such a superficial detail.
What makes your life and culture so radically different from the rest of the world?
| Quote: |
| Your "nobody in the U.S. cares about jaywalking" comment is just more proof of how offbase your posts on this subject are. |
Okay a small minority of people care. No one is going to get really judgmental about it and take someone to task over it (unless its a breaking irate motorist) the way that someone would in Korea. At the same time smoking in a public park would get people up in arms back home, here no one makes a stink about it. The point us that there are certain small laws/annoyances that people get really serious over in the name of "protecting the children", while letting others slide and vice versa. Different song, same dance. |
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ZIFA
Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Location: Dici che il fiume..Trova la via al mare
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| Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:00 am Post subject: |
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| ESL Milk "Everyday wrote: |
| http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shame_society |
Interesting link.
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| Personal desires are sunk in the collective expectation. |
A korean once told me that he wouldn't swop his nationality.. because his government wouldn't like it.
Thats how far the personal has been subjugated to the national in this country.
It also explains why these people are prepared to put up with so much. They feel their rights are not that important. |
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chotaerang
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Location: In the gym
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| Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:25 am Post subject: |
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| OP, the fish metaphor is fantastic. |
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ESL Milk "Everyday
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:43 am Post subject: |
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Steelrails, do you speak Korean?
I'm asking because I have no idea how you could say what you say while also having the slightest clue about what's going on around you at any given time. |
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ZIFA
Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Location: Dici che il fiume..Trova la via al mare
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| Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:57 am Post subject: |
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| ESL Milk "Everyday wrote: |
Steelrails, do you speak Korean?
I'm asking because I have no idea how you could say what you say while also having the slightest clue about what's going on around you at any given time. |
He's ethnically korean.
Which is why he doesn't get a lot of the social "niceties" that are thrown at foreigners who look different.
Its a bit like talking about art to someone who's colorblind. |
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ESL Milk "Everyday
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:02 am Post subject: |
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| ZIFA wrote: |
He's ethnically korean.
Which is why he doesn't get a lot of the social "niceties" that are thrown at foreigners who look different.
Its a bit like talking about art to someone who's colorblind. |
I can sort of understand wanting to defend Korean culture from the nastiness here, but saying that Korean society is pretty much the same thing as American society suggests that there's some pretty deep denial going on. |
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cybermutiny
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:37 am Post subject: |
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| ZIFA wrote: |
| A korean once told me that he wouldn't swop his nationality.. because his government wouldn't like it. |
Wow, if he was serious that's pretty amazing. |
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