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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Kleft
Joined: 09 Apr 2011
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 Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:42 pm Post subject: Why is ESL teaching for a long time a bad thing? |
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I have been reading the forums alot. People have often made mention of the fact that if you stay out of the country to teach ESL for an extended period of time, it makes you undesirable.
Why is this?
I am a certified teacher in the US and I just got a job in Seoul. I don't know how long I plan to stay but I was curious on why people keep stating this.
Thanks for your help. |
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thegadfly
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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The majority of teaching jobs available in Korea are "entry-level" type jobs, which require little to no experience, knowledge, or even skill to acquire.
Many people who spend multiple years teaching in Korea do so by jumping from one job to the next, effectively keeping them in Year One of a "career."
There are a number of schools that do not even WANT people to stay more than a year or two, and the incentives at many places are not sufficient to warrant the time investment.
In the US, if someone jumps from entry-level job to entry-level job, never staying in one place or climbing the ladder, most people would consider that a "waste of time." Same thing here.
It IS possible to find a school where one could make a career (I have one, many posters on this board have them also), but such jobs seem to be in the minority in Korea.... |
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Kleft
Joined: 09 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| That makes alot of sense. Thanks |
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ESL Milk "Everyday
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| Honestly, who cares what those people think? |
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thegadfly
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:08 am Post subject: |
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| ESL Milk "Everyday wrote: |
| Honestly, who cares what those people think? |
While I agree with the sentiment that other folks' opinions really should not matter that much, there is also the idea that the time spent working in Korea may not translate to advances in one's career path.
If someone works in ESL jobs for 8 years in Korea, then returns to his/her home country to begin a career in another field, then those 8 years are a "waste," in the sense that those 8 years could have been spent making contacts and earning experience related to the person's actual, intended career field.
For people for whom teaching IS the intended career field, ESL teaching is "less of a waste." My first three years of hakwon work in Korea were indeed counted as years of teaching experience at the next two jobs I had teaching in the US -- they counted toward higher steps on the salary scale. Not every place does it, but in my own case, even my year at Wonderland was not wasted in my career path, because it counted as a year of experience in several subsequent teaching jobs in the US...had it NOT counted, it might have been more of a waste....
Of course, many districts have a maximum step at which one could be hired in, and if you kick around long enough, then you may not get all of your years counted...but then, that would happen no matter where you taught, if you were to change States. I have 19 years teaching experience now (about half of that in Korea, half in the US), and even if all 19 had been at one school in my home State of Michigan, I doubt all 19 would count if I moved to Texas or California...and so some of those years are "wasted," in a sense.... |
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isitts
Joined: 25 Dec 2008
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:26 am Post subject: Re: Why is ESL teaching for a long time a bad thing? |
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| Kleft wrote: |
| I have been reading the forums alot. People have often made mention of the fact that if you stay out of the country to teach ESL for an extended period of time, it makes you undesirable. |
Not to the local women.
| Kleft wrote: |
| I don't know how long I plan to stay but I was curious on why people keep stating this. |
Unfortunately, no one can be told. They have to see for themselves.
Sorry, I couldn't resist. Um, what thegadfly said, that's what I think, too. And ESL Milk makes a good point.
But I would say whether or not your time is wasted depends on what you do with your time. I'd thought my time was wasted teaching in Japan and Taiwan, but those years did count towards getting me into the public school program for secondary education in the US.
If you're already a certified teacher, you don't need to worry. Just enjoy your time here and when you feel like going back, you have credentials to get a job when you get back.
I think the warning for staying here too long is for those who don't have credentials. But you're not in that category.
Actually, if you're a certified teacher, you have more options than those of us that don't. You can work at an international school with better benefits. |
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ZIFA
Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Location: Dici che il fiume..Trova la via al mare
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| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:54 am Post subject: |
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| ESL Milk" Everyday wrote: |
| Honestly, who cares what those people think? |
Exactly.
"Careers" are for guys who can't attract women naturally. |
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ssuprnova
Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Location: Saigon
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| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| thegadfly wrote: |
| ESL Milk "Everyday wrote: |
| Honestly, who cares what those people think? |
While I agree with the sentiment that other folks' opinions really should not matter that much, there is also the idea that the time spent working in Korea may not translate to advances in one's career path. I honestly doubt that many expats here make 천만원 a year in Korea.
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This. Some people I know from back home are working towards 6-figure incomes (in CAN$). Sure, they work hard and end up changing jobs every few years, but the networks they establish will help them no matter where they go. I honestly doubt that many expats get 억원 here. |
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ESL Milk "Everyday
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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If you compare this job to the best job(s) that you could possibly get back home, then yes, this is going to come up short. It's not necessarily a dream job, but on the other hand it's really not so bad and you could do a lot worse.
And there's nothing really stopping you from going back to school when you're 35... I don't think you'd be the only one. |
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isitts
Joined: 25 Dec 2008
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| ssuprnova wrote: |
| thegadfly wrote: |
| ESL Milk "Everyday wrote: |
| Honestly, who cares what those people think? |
While I agree with the sentiment that other folks' opinions really should not matter that much, there is also the idea that the time spent working in Korea may not translate to advances in one's career path. I honestly doubt that many expats here make 천만원 a year in Korea.
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This. Some people I know from back home are working towards 6-figure incomes (in CAN$). Sure, they work hard and end up changing jobs every few years, but the networks they establish will help them no matter where they go. I honestly doubt that many expats get 억원 here. |
Yeah, and some people are working several part-time jobs barely getting by and telling me I should come back home. Meanwhile I'm putting aside a grand a month, something I, personally, couldn't do back home.
It's not how much you make, it's what you do with what you make. |
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Evanzinho
Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Location: California
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| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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I think as long as you have a plan for what you will do after you leave Korea, then teaching ESL long term is not a "bad thing', so to speak. Whether your goal after Korea is to continue your education, invest in stocks/PMs/Real Estate or start a small business, teaching in Korea and saving the money you make can give you what you need to acheive your goals.
The people that say teaching ESL is a "career killer" may well be correct in the sense that you're unable to climb the corporate ladder after being abroad for so long, but many on here (myself included) have no interest in "climbing the ladder" anyways. Besides, if that's your main goal in life, why would you spend even one year teaching abroad?
| ESL Milk "Everyday wrote: |
And there's nothing really stopping you from going back to school when you're 35... I don't think you'd be the only one. |
Absolutely, plenty of people in their 30s go back to school. Or how about learning a trade? Or getting certified in something (paralegal, medical, etc)? There are plenty of opportunities out there. |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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What's a "career"? When I lived in Canada I noticed people defined their life by their job. I've learned it's not so important, there's more to life than work.
I had a "career" in Canada and had a lower standard of living and saved less.
Been here 7 years. For 3 years I paid off my Canadian debts. But in the last 4 years I've bought my house and nearly paid off the mortgage (few more months). Basically negative to home ownership debt free in 7.5 years. And it isn't a crap house either. Don't know anyone in Canada that's done that, and I've basically worked hogwons and PS jobs (nothing special).
It's easy to save and improve you standard of living here. Back home the lottery seemed like the best idea. |
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bobbybigfoot
Joined: 05 May 2007
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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It can make the return home more difficult. You may find yourself unemployable.
"So you've been in Korea for 5 years. So you have no recent experience in our industry?"
"Um, no."
"Ah." |
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Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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I miss home.
Last edited by Swampfox10mm on Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:42 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ESL Milk "Everyday
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| bobbybigfoot wrote: |
It can make the return home more difficult. You may find yourself unemployable.
"So you've been in Korea for 5 years. So you have no recent experience in our industry?"
"Um, no."
"Ah." |
How did you even get that interview in the first place?
I think that it mostly depends on what you're aiming for... if it is your dream to work in one particular industry, then yes, you should probably be trying to accomplish that goal. But what you really shouldn't do is walk around thinking that everyone else has a goal that is exactly the same as yours and they're a loser if they're not doing what you're doing...
ESL has some drawbacks (everything does), but one thing it will give you is a lot of time... and if you're a certain type of person, time can be even more precious than money.
I'm one of those 'I only really enjoy doing this if I get to say how it's done' people, so I plan on doing this as long as I can (or before I go completely over the edge, anyways) and then doing my own thing with my savings... because the idea appeals to me. I used to feel the same sense of urgency as a lot of people on this board, but then I realized that there's still plenty of time... if you're 30, or 40 or 50.
As someone on this thread has already said, as long as you're not wasting your money on things that aren't worthwhile (whatever they may be), and you have a clear or even not-so-clear-but-still-coherent idea of where you're going to be later on, I don't see any reason to sacrifice a perfectly decent job in the name of your pride, or your sense of being better than it... unless of course you have other goals. |
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