Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Kepler]

Timothy Ferriss, a former curriculum designer at Berlitz International who has achieved fluency in six foreign languages himself, explains why most languages classes don't work:

"1. Teachers are viewed as saviors when materials are actually the determining factor. Teachers are merely conduits for the material. By analogy, it is better to have a decent cook with excellent easy-to-follow recipe than a great cook with terrible recipe. It is the material that will restrict or elevate the teacher, and a good teacher forced to follow bad material will hinder, not hasten, learning progress...."
This is a very valid point that many schools fail to understand. A lot of schools seem much more concerned about the teachers they hire than the quality of their language learning materials. It's not going to make a big difference if McDonald's hires an experienced chef to flip burgers.

"2. Classes move as slowly as the slowest student...."
Obviously true...

"3. Conversation can be learned but not taught.... Grammar can be learned with writing exercises in a class of 20, whereas 'conversation' cannot be learned in anything but a realistic one-on-one environment where your brain is forced to adapt to normal speed and adopt coping mechanisms such as delaying tactics ('in other words,' 'let me think for a second,' etc.). Separate grammar from conversation practice...."
A person can spend years studying a foreign language in a classroom but then experience great difficulty in having a five minute conversation with a native speaker in a real life situation.

"4. Teachers are often prescriptive instead of descriptive...."
Sometimes the language in foreign language study books is much more formal and polite than the language used by native speakers in most situations.
http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/bonus/pdf/why-classes-dont-work.pdf

[Triban]

5. Students don't study outside of class.

[Slowmotion]

Well one thing that doesn't work is when the Korean teachers pronounce the words like it is spelled in Korean rather than English. Then when students hear the real pronunciation, they have no idea what word it is.

[ESL Milk "Everyday]

He makes a lot of good points... and I think a lot of the teachers here should be taking this to heart-- if only more of us cared about what we were doing.

I'm not so sure about the one-on-one thing, however... I often try to talk to my students as a whole class... admittedly, I'm not always reaching everyone, but I do see lights in some of their eyes from time to time. Obviously one-on-one is more intensive, but I'm not completely willing to rule out group discussion 100%...

[sigmundsmith]

[TECO]

He's put some thought into those comments. They're important to consider for EFL instructors. It's easy to get tied to the materials and let the text control the direction of the lesson; when in fact, the instructor needs to be in control of the lesson.

[DIsbell]

Tim Ferris, in my opinion, has to be taken with a grain of salt. I really like a lot of his blog articles and ideas about language learning, but mainly for their usefulness in pursuing self study (and I like his travel stuff). However he tends to make a lot of generalizations about mainstream/formal language learning (which have some basis in reality for sure) that don't actually contrast with what are actually prevalent ideas in the fields of TESL and SLA. Anyone who has taken any sort of TESL course, for example, would know that language classes aren't supposed to be nothing but teachers talking and students passively listening, but that's what Ferriss tends to characterize classroom language learning as.

The reason you need to take him with a grain of salt is that he's first and foremost an entrepreneur whose main racket at the moment is selling self-help books. So of course his wunderkind stories about learning 6 languages "easily" and achieving fluency in a short time sound appealing- if it didn't sound appealing, he wouldn't sell books.

[oldtrafford]

I couldn't agree more!!


The reason you need to take him with a grain of salt is that he's first and foremost an entrepreneur whose main racket at the moment is selling self-help books. So of course his wunderkind stories about learning 6 languages "easily" and achieving fluency in a short time sound appealing- if it didn't sound appealing, he wouldn't sell books.

[RMNC]

Surprise, surprise. Human nature wants results without effort.

In other news, the sky is blue and I'm better looking than Triban.

[edwardcatflap]

As someone else pointed out, he's a curriculum designer so of course he thinks that's the most important thing. Also from what I've heard Berlitz is the kind of place that forces teachers to stick rigidly to their methodology and book so that's another reason. In a school where teachers are made to stick to some script at every point then of course the quality of the teacher will be less important.

[TECO]

[ddeubel]

[walter235]

I remember reading sometime back a teacher posted an article from the mid-1960's about teaching in Korea. The complaints and observations were just like the ones teachers make about teaching English here today. Do you expect much to change in an old, hidebound, mediocre country like Korea?

[Chet Wautlands]

[walter235]