Korean Job Discussion Forums

[bcjinseoul]

...and leave Korea after just one year. I had an amazing time the four years I was there on and off and on and off, and if I had no family and no ties, I would probably stay in Korea the rest of my working life. My father's age and my sister's upcoming wedding help keep me in the States at the minute. I've been back a year, and it's been a long, hard, poor, unhappy, difficult year.

Not having rent and a car, and finding myself filling out the 2555EZ with the 1040 every spring, having thousands of dollars in the bank, having nights and weekends off and not getting up too early in the morning like a teacher and a tradesman back home, with an easy job with about 20 hours of real work per week, paid time off, full benefits and pension, visiting other countries during vacation time, going to awesome bars and clubs every Friday and Saturday night, beautiful women all over the place...what is there NOT to like?

Having said all that, I'd like to know what most TEFLers (rather, recent college grads) do before or after Korea...odds are jobs that are not enjoyable and that do not pay a lot of money, like the one I'm doing now. Having said all that, if you don't like "Korean culture" or "Hogwon culture," remember why you left your country: for a shot at something better, long term or short term, whether it's making more money, finding a job you enjoy, or just trying something new.

And for all you young single guys out there reading this: you know it's better to come to Asia single. That's half the fun right there. I've decided to import a facebook blog of mine to add to all of this which I recently wrote, entitled 'Aftermath':


"It�s after midnight and I�m wide awake. Why, you ask? Because my current job is 4pm till midnight five nights a week, and if anything, it�s making me fat. Having said that, $11.25 an hour plus small commissions of 20-30 dollars here and there is hardly a king�s ransom. There are a lot of people at my call center with degrees and even graduate degrees. One guy has a degree in biology and never quite made it to med school, another girl I know has a master�s degree in some discipline of psychology. There are middle aged people with missing teeth who take the bicycle home, guess some of them can�t afford a car or regular dental appointments. Meanwhile, mainstream media tells us that 40 million people are on food stamps in this country. What they don�t tell you is how many homeless people there are, and the tens of millions of young adults like me, born in the 1980s, which are just getting by.

The cost of living versus real wages is an abomination in this country. Let�s just say 10-15 dollars an hour was a lot more money 10-15 years ago. In 1999, when I was 18, gas was like 99 cents a gallon, a pound of meat was like $1.50, and combo at Burger King was like maybe $4-5 at the most, and college was only about half as expensive as it is now. Back then, everyone was doing great, money went far, and the middle class dream was still somewhat accessible to all. I can�t believe how few new cars cost less than $20,000. It�s getting to the point where any job that pays less than $25 an hour or $50,000 a year sucks, basically. The average income of the bottom 90% of Americans, everything from minimum wage cashiers to $90,000 pharmacists, is only a paltry $32,000 a year, which is NOTHING. We are living in the Twilight Zone

A little more than a decade into the 21st century and the United States seems only slightly better off than countries in South America. The cost of living is exploding as the dollar collapses, while we print it to death to bail out banks, corporations, and finance wars that have nothing to do with our own personal freedom on the home front. Government under Bush tripled in size after 9-11, and finished turning our country into a police state. There was a lot more freedom and a lot less cops and laws, decades ago, that�s for sure. As we continue to find other wars to fight abroad, America is now ranked 64th in income equality worldwide, and more and more people struggle to pay rent and pay for their car, buy gas and groceries, afford health insurance and college for their kids, and save for retirement. Even Warren Buffet will tell you most Americans are just getting by, just like me (and odds are, you too). Big business continues to sponsor both presidential candidates every four years, and every other major company you can think of does it�s manufacturing in Asia and finds tax havens by establishing headquarters in Europe. Meanwhile, the poor masses are left to flip the bill with the NO MONEY they have, and global government gets a bigger say of what we do and when we do it, with regards to fiscal policy (IMF), wars (NATO, UN), economic policy (World Banc), trade policy (NAFTA, WTO), foreign relations (Trilateral Commission, Council on Foreign Relations), and the masses are forced to suffer under Keynesian economics and central banking (The Fed) as well as its biggest side-effect: The IRS. Until more people understand the trap we�re in of business cycles with the current way we do central banking and monetary policy, there will always be another recession or depression a few decades away. Globalism just doesn�t work.

Within the last decade or two, most college degrees and majors have become worthless, while the price paid for such a piece of paper skyrockets. My own experiences teaching ESL in Korea as well as with some of the jobs I�ve had here in the States (including my current one) have shown me just how useless a degree in philosophy, psychology, criminal justice, art, music, communications, French, Italian, photography, fashion, design, literature, political science and sociology really are. And yet, plenty of 18 year olds year after year choose the worst possible major and most expensive college they can find. Meanwhile, a guy like myself is in the worst possible situation to go back to school, with no Pell Grant, no GI BILL, no house to refinance, no money, no family or wife to live off of, and the need to constantly work to pay the bills. Umm, isn�t this supposed to be the land of opportunity? The only cheap college is a community college. And to add: I have been looking for a GOOD job in my country for a whole year, and it�s very disheartening.

With unemployment about to jump up again, and the markets about to crash again (by all financial and economic indicators), you�d think between all of the above the people would be taking to the streets, demonstrating, and writing to their congressmen. There is a lot to be angry about, and nothing to be happy about, and no light at the end of the tunnel. Make no mistake, from the tech bubble to 9-11 to the housing and market crashes to all this printing of money and endless wars, limited freedoms, lots of laws, big government, high unemployment and long job searches; high cost of living, health care, housing, college, etc; and most of the people caught up in the same left vs right political punditry (that seems to come down to the rich/business/conservative/Christian/war monger/socialist hating establishment vs. the poor/individual/liberal/agnostic/peace loving/socialist loving establishment; I can find flaws with both sides). To top it all off, we have to worry about the future of food stuffs, farming land, oil reserves, and potential resource wars with China, Russia, and who knows whom else. If the next ten years are anything like the last ten, America is headed for a deep, dark place.

It has been slightly more than a year since I left Korea, and I have never been more disappointed, both with my own country, and my own life. I�d like to say something positive, but I just can�t think of anything. At all. So I�m ending this little rant with this sentence."

[World Traveler]

Wow, that post was extremely cynical. I don't have the time to address the whole thing, so I'll say the following:
Warren Buffet referred to being born into the United States as winning the ovarian lottery. The value of a college degree is growing, not declining. The United States is not going to heck in a hand basket. Change your attitude and you may find better life success.

Value of College Degree Is Growing, Study Says

[Died By Bear]

Kiddies, go ahead and complain. I got ten years on this guy and he's just interested in writing a diatribe. And what a diatribe it was! Sheesh, have fun, enjoy your youth...hell MAKE lots of mistakes now, when you're still young enough to enjoy your youth!

Don't go through life like that guy. You'll be bitter and sorry about a lot of things. Just have fun and try to take something away with you when you leave, preferrably a cool souvenier you stole from Korea! Kidding, kidding.

[sirius black]

Many factors have to be considered with regards to getting a 'good' job. Your degree, the region you live in, your experience, you attitude which would include how prepared you are, etc.
However, no matter what the stats say to the positive. What I am hearing across the board from friends who have all manner of work experiences, areas of the country and degrees is that its very tough out there and they have warned me to prepare for a tough job search experience if/when I come back to the states. I have a few who are 'stuck' in jobs that pay fairly well but what they have to do for the paycheck (long hours, often weekends, benefits being taken away little by little, etc.) has seriously impacted their quality of life. The 'grind'. They can't get the same pay so easily somewhere else so they are stuck and the companies are now firmly in the driving seat as they have a stack of resumes from folks who will not only be more than happy to do the same job but for less than you.

What I'm hearing is you can get any old job but not any quality ones. Therefore I wouldn't dismiss the OPs post so easily but instead will take it as a personal warning to be as prepared as possible and save as much money as possible before going back. Have a game plan. I don't think they're handing jobs off the plane.

[J Rock]

I'm sorry you're having trouble finding a job. Here is my take on your post, I have a couple of friends back home who have the same mind set as you seem to have, I also have some friends that have the complete opposite mindset. Most of them have degrees while some don't.

My friends that sound like they are similar to you constantly bitch and moan about how there are no jobs and it's so tough for kids coming out of college and there is no hope. What i've also noticed is that they don't try all that hard to actually find jobs, they might say they do by getting on the "interweb" a couple hours a day and read articles about how bad the economy is or apply to jobs on monster for "100K a year by working from home." The truth is they are kinda lazy and don't have all that much motivation that would really push them to be better than the rest of the turds sitting at home not working.

What I have noticed about the other group of friends who seem to have the opposite point of view as you is that they don't really care what the media says about unemployment, they get out of their parents basement, somehow fight their way into a job even if it means taking a lower position but eventually rising within the ranks. The point is they somehow find a way to make it happen, they don't complain, they do whatever they have to to get where they need to be.

I know you're going to come back and say "Whoa, I'm not lazy it really is bad out there and I have been trying" I don't doubt you have been trying, but the majorty of my friends who are really driven have found jobs and they all live around the Detroit area. My friends who bitch and complain the day away still live in their parants basements smoking pot well into their late 20's.

Keep trying to change the world from your parents computer while switching back and forth from porn websites and monster.com.

[Chris.Quigley]

I was almost duped into a long winded response....

I prefer Canada long term. Korea was a good time... but probably wouldn't make a good life for me.

[Died By Bear]

It's all up to you, just because one guy can't talk his way out of a paper bag, doesn't mean no one else can't. While some employers like to see recent experience on a resume, other employers don't really care, they are just looking for hungry people that want a career.

When I left Korea, I thought there was no way I'd ever get back into IT because I'd been out of it for so long. I was wrong. It took 8 months, but I got a great gig paying in the high 60's - and it's SO easy (after the initial six month learning curve) now. Sure it's not a huge salary, but my wife makes more than I do, and we don't have any kids.

I'm just saying, don't give up hope because one or two people get up here and say how bad their life is because they don't make much money. You always try to improve your situation, just don't give up.

Sure I got depressed when I was looking for a job, there were times I wanted to give up and run back to Korea where I could easily get set up making 4.5 - 6.0 a month, but there are too many negatives that I didn't want to put up with in Korea, so I kept on trying. Things have a way of coming to you when you know what you want, and you keep trying.

[Greenman]

I love the whole "America sucks" mentality thats big right now.

High gas prices, shitty jobs. Welcome to the rest of the world.

Britain has been like this for YEARS.

[oldtrafford]

Couldn't agree more Greenman. In that time I changed careers (very high paying job, just not for me and then did my GTP) so even in those tough years of Blighty I was doing very well. I moved to Korea to purely live, work in a foreign land. I make the same as I would back in Blighty being a classroom teacher, however my work load is a lot less here!!

[oldtrafford]

Oh, and my 2,100 pounds goes a lot further here!! Saving potential is far, far greater!!

[sirius black]

Maybe the OP isn't as proactive as one could be. I don't know. While I will say its always a good thing to maintain a postive frame of mind, prepare yourself as best as possible for todays world, there are areas of the country and industries that hard work, perseverance and dilligence just isn't enough.
There is a reason why jobs is the most important issue in the election. There are some that have tried earnestly by anyone's standards and still can't find a job or find one that is adequate by a long way.
The 'I got a good job so you can too if you tried' is a bit too simplistic. I have a great job in Korea but I won't be so presumptious as to say I'm typical and that if anyone else's job sucks or isn't as good its their own fault.
I'm happy for the poster in IT but not everyone does IT. There are friends I have that are as conscientious as they come. As hard working and dilligent as they come, very positive people who are struggling. Its simply not as easy as some make it out to be.

[You]

Um, I taught in Korea for two years while I did my Masters in Education from the state university in my hometown online.

I just got back to the states and I'm moving to California because I found an administrative position in Napa Valley that pays $5,328-$5,874/month including medical, dental, vision, disability, and life insurance; employee assistance program; and retirement system membership. 18 paid holidays, 22 vacation days, and 12 days sick leave annually.

I turned 24 in April....

There were a ton of jobs similar to the one I found in the area, I just went after that one specifically because it's 20 minutes away from my boyfriends medical school.

So...yeah..totally don't know where you're coming from...

[sirius black]

First, I have friends with advanced degrees who took a long time to find a job. I can trump your experience with several people with advanced degrees who weren't so fortunate. The effort they made is debatable. Also, as I said in a previous post, the region of the country, type of job, etc., experience has a huge say in the success of getting a job. I moved to a different region of the country to find a better job when I first left school. Not everyone can do that. I happen to have relatives who I could stay with until I was able to make it on my own. Second is your situation typical or atypical? Advanced degrees are not typical nowadays. Many are going back to school and you're lucky to be ahead of the curve. Bachelors are like a HS diploma nowadays and with so many people going back for a masters, your masters may not be as exclusive as it is today. Most people have etiher a bachelors or lower. Is it the same for them?
Maybe it is that easy. If it was so easy, millions of people are either lazy or perhaps there really is a bad economy and one can try in earnest and still struggle to find a good job.
The job applicants to Korea increased with the bad economy. Are you suggesting that all these forumites who came because of a lack of job after graduation were either lazy or not dilligent enough? Maybe so. I'd suggest otherwise. The numbers suggest there is a jobs issue in the U.S. Peaches for your job. California may cut that job at anytime if what I hear of the economy there is any evidence and you may have to pursue one of the other plentiful jobs.

[tran.huongthu]

[Weigookin74]