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HoldenOversoul
Joined: 04 Feb 2011
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 Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:41 am Post subject: Return Ticket & Severance Negotiation |
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| Brief Background: My school's owner just fired (or as he called it "released us from our contract") three out of the four foreign teachers at my school, including myself, due to financial and student retention issues. Can I negotiate a plane ticket home or some sort of severance or do I have no chance? It strictly states in my contract that if I'm fired then I get nothing, but I was thinking maybe I can do something because of the circumstances. I also don't want to piss him off though because I plan on coming back in February 2012 and using him as a reference. |
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thegadfly
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:17 am Post subject: |
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I think you need to make a choice -- shoot for the plane ticket, or keep him as a reference...it would take a significant amount of finesse to get both, I think....
What month are you in? If it is prior to 6 months, I think there is very little that could be done. If it is in the 10th or 11th month, you should talk to the labor board (and kiss the reference letter goodbye). Between 6 and 9 months, and I am not sure if the labor board would do as much....
Does your contract have a clause stating that the school may let you go for financial reasons? If so, then there may be less that can be done...also, is the school going under, or just downsizing? If it is tanking, there may be no money to even get....
To me, a plane ticket is worth a lot more than a reference letter, and if I were in my 10th or 11th month, I would fight to get it...but at month six, I would just go for a positive reference, no cancellation of my visa (so I could stay in country and look for a job, and if I found one, I could transfer the visa, rather than start over), a LOR (for when I found that job), and a written promise to transfer my current visa when I found another school...all things that cost the owner nothing to agree with, and would make my own life easier...assuming things were kept on good terms.... |
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HoldenOversoul
Joined: 04 Feb 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| thegadfly wrote: |
I think you need to make a choice -- shoot for the plane ticket, or keep him as a reference...it would take a significant amount of finesse to get both, I think....
What month are you in? If it is prior to 6 months, I think there is very little that could be done. If it is in the 10th or 11th month, you should talk to the labor board (and kiss the reference letter goodbye). Between 6 and 9 months, and I am not sure if the labor board would do as much....
Does your contract have a clause stating that the school may let you go for financial reasons? If so, then there may be less that can be done...also, is the school going under, or just downsizing? If it is tanking, there may be no money to even get....
To me, a plane ticket is worth a lot more than a reference letter, and if I were in my 10th or 11th month, I would fight to get it...but at month six, I would just go for a positive reference, no cancellation of my visa (so I could stay in country and look for a job, and if I found one, I could transfer the visa, rather than start over), a LOR (for when I found that job), and a written promise to transfer my current visa when I found another school...all things that cost the owner nothing to agree with, and would make my own life easier...assuming things were kept on good terms.... |
Thanks for the help. My plan is to go home and then potentially come back in February if I can find the right job situation. I was let go due to downsizing, but he decided to cut me loose instead of the one remaining foreignor because she had been at the school longer. The contract explicity states that being fired rescinds severence eligibility along with the plane ticket. By last day (July 15) will mark my 8th month working for the school. I really would like to grab a ticket home, but I'm not sure how to bring it up because I am likely (not probably) coming back in February. |
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HoldenOversoul
Joined: 04 Feb 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| thegadfly wrote: |
I think you need to make a choice -- shoot for the plane ticket, or keep him as a reference...it would take a significant amount of finesse to get both, I think....
What month are you in? If it is prior to 6 months, I think there is very little that could be done. If it is in the 10th or 11th month, you should talk to the labor board (and kiss the reference letter goodbye). Between 6 and 9 months, and I am not sure if the labor board would do as much....
Does your contract have a clause stating that the school may let you go for financial reasons? If so, then there may be less that can be done...also, is the school going under, or just downsizing? If it is tanking, there may be no money to even get....
To me, a plane ticket is worth a lot more than a reference letter, and if I were in my 10th or 11th month, I would fight to get it...but at month six, I would just go for a positive reference, no cancellation of my visa (so I could stay in country and look for a job, and if I found one, I could transfer the visa, rather than start over), a LOR (for when I found that job), and a written promise to transfer my current visa when I found another school...all things that cost the owner nothing to agree with, and would make my own life easier...assuming things were kept on good terms.... |
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SeoulNate
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Location: Hyehwa
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| did they give you 30 days notice? or 30 days pay in place of the notice? If so, there is not really much you can do other than obtain a LOR from him. If they did not, the labor board will be on your side for the firing. |
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HoldenOversoul
Joined: 04 Feb 2011
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:05 am Post subject: |
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| SeoulNate wrote: |
| did they give you 30 days notice? or 30 days pay in place of the notice? If so, there is not really much you can do other than obtain a LOR from him. If they did not, the labor board will be on your side for the firing. |
They told me yesterday. They said that they want me to work until July 17 which will mark my 8th month. My last paycheck will be July 17. |
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iggyb
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:32 am Post subject: |
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Look around this site and on the web for the English version of the labor laws and read them. It is better to inform yourself rather than rely on others --- though checking here is worthwhile as an addition.
No matter what your contract says, it can't trump the labor law.
The laws change over time, so what was so 5 years ago to someone here might not be so now.
You could also contact the labor board or look for one of the pro bono legal services that you can google for to give you advice.
Overall, I think you would be hard pressed to squeeze money out of a business that is suffering financial difficulty, especially without being over 12 months in.
For myself, if I thought I could get my airfare out of it, I'd forget about the letter of reference. It isn't like hakwons are pillars of the hiring community. I don't think not having a good letter of reference from him is going to prevent you from coming back to Korea or land you a great job if you do get it. Not for just 8 months Korea experience and your ability to explain that the company downsized and that is why you didn't finish that job.
Maybe I'd get each of the other people let go to write a letter explaining the situation. |
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HoldenOversoul
Joined: 04 Feb 2011
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:02 am Post subject: |
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| iggyb wrote: |
Look around this site and on the web for the English version of the labor laws and read them. It is better to inform yourself rather than rely on others --- though checking here is worthwhile as an addition.
No matter what your contract says, it can't trump the labor law.
The laws change over time, so what was so 5 years ago to someone here might not be so now.
You could also contact the labor board or look for one of the pro bono legal services that you can google for to give you advice.
Overall, I think you would be hard pressed to squeeze money out of a business that is suffering financial difficulty, especially without being over 12 months in.
For myself, if I thought I could get my airfare out of it, I'd forget about the letter of reference. It isn't like hakwons are pillars of the hiring community. I don't think not having a good letter of reference from him is going to prevent you from coming back to Korea or land you a great job if you do get it. Not for just 8 months Korea experience and your ability to explain that the company downsized and that is why you didn't finish that job.
Maybe I'd get each of the other people let go to write a letter explaining the situation. |
Thanks for the advice. I'm definitely going to look into it because I feel like a lot of things were sketchy about my situation. Also, before I left, my owner talked to me personally about the situation as opposed to before when he talked to my fellow fired coworkers and myself together. He told me one particular reason I was fired was because some children complained about me and over the course of my employment two or three quit the hagwon. In my own defense, I tried very hard to maintain control of the classroom and actual teach rather than babysit and allow for playpen scenario. I bring this up because my contract states three reasons for termination by employer. The only one that could possibly be applicable is gross negligence. However, I hardly consider my actions to be described as gross negligence. Would I have a point to bring this up to him or the labor board? I mean, he had talked to me twice over the duration of the year talking about student complaints, but it was all relative to trying to control the classroom or assigning work. Also, my contract states nothing about what should happen if the school is in financial turmoil - the real reason he's firing us... Thanks |
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iggyb
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:38 am Post subject: |
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Again, read the labor laws if you want to possibly fight for your money.
Kids move from hakwon to hakwon.
I wouldn't get lost in trying to think your way through it. Just more stress.
The fact that he let several people go at once fits the financial problem/downsizing to a T, and that is the only reason needed to explain why you were let go, and that is what I'd tell the labor board if I ever decided to go to them.
I doubt your chances are good that you'll get more money than your last pay checks --- and even with that, I'd be a little concerned - but not terribly so if your boss has been upfront with pay for the past 7 months.
Most likely, you'll just have to save up what you can now for when you come back. |
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HoldenOversoul
Joined: 04 Feb 2011
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| I am going to contact the labor board. I think the whole scenario is sketchy and a violation of my contract. He fired me, along with the others, for financial reasons and then offered a different explanation to try and cover his ass on the gross negligence clause. However, if that's his argument for the labor board, then I will counter with the fact that I worked for five more weeks after he fired me - which in my opinion, would nullify any argument for gross negligence. Do you know if I can set up a face to face meeting with a representative of the labor board? |
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