Korean Job Discussion Forums

[plato's republic]

I came across this article at the Korea Times. Is this group in any way affiliated to AES?

'Let's cut spending on English lessons'

By Yun Suh-young

To cut spending on private English studies, a civic group has launched a campaign by publishing a booklet underlining the inefficacy of learning English at language institutes.

The World Without Worries About Private Education (WWWPE), an educational civic group, publicized the booklet, titled �What a Waste! Private English Education,� which provides alternative methods to learn English without relying on expensive private institutes, on Sept. 28.

The group will begin distributing 2 million copies of the booklet to citizens.

�We�ve launched a campaign to give parents proper information about private English education, since this takes up a major portion of private tuition costs. We want to help them reduce unnecessary spending on educating their children,� said Kim Seung-hyun, a policy division chief at the WWWPE.

�Parents don�t have enough channels from which they can access relevant information. They mainly rely on what they are told by the private academies but the information they get from these institutes is, most of the time, exaggerated and distorted.�

The purpose is to spread a proper understanding of English education.

�Our organization was created in June 2008 and we have been preparing booklets ever since. This is a sequel to the first one we published,� said Kim.

The booklet discusses 12 misconceptions about English education and gives alternative solutions to each of the problems.

Discussions, research, and seminars were held 36 times over the last three years to prepare the booklet. Participating authors include college professors, teachers, private academy instructors, doctors and journalists.

Not early, but right time

The 26 participating authors each give different advice.

�Providing English education at the �right� time is more important than starting �early,�� said Lee Byung-min, a professor at the Department of English Education at Seoul National University.

Lee says starting English education at an earlier age is not a rule of thumb.

According to the booklet, the temporal lobe that controls language ability develops from age six.

The consequences of early English learning are also serious, the booklet says.

�Those who come back from their studies abroad at an early age often have difficulties catching up with Korean education,� says Um Tae-hyun, a consultant for study abroad programs.

Instead of spending more on ineffective English education, properly learning their mother tongue and reading books in their own language rather helps to improve a child�s cognitive thinking skills more, the booklet says.

�If they build background knowledge through reading in Korean, they adapt very quickly to English books. This speeds up their English reading comprehension,� says Han Mee-hyun, a participating author and a mother with five years of English teaching experience.

For quality conversations, background knowledge and attitude are more important, says Kim Hye-young, a professor at the department of English education at Chung-Ang University. �Pronunciation is a subordinate matter,� she says.

Parents with young children welcome the organization�s movement.

�I have a wife who majored in early childhood education in college and she says that it�s bad for the child to feel much stress about learning at such a young age,� said Joo Beom-soo, a parent with an eight year-old.

�My child is in the first grade of elementary school and he hasn�t received any private English education yet. I�m a little worried, but I do think private education isn�t so necessary if only there are many other ways to encounter English.�

The 36 page booklet will be distributed to schools, consumers� cooperatives, religious organizations, libraries and the media.

[Zyzyfer]

Why would it be? It doesn't say a peep about English teachers. And while I find the opinions on early education to be a bit unresearched, there's nothing inherently shocking about the article.

[plato's republic]

I just thought it rang a bell. Maybe not.

Wouldn't any significant cut in spending on private English education (hagwons) have an effect of some sort on native-English speakers?

[pkang0202]

I kinda agree with that group.


You got Korean who've been to Hagwons learning English for over a decade and their English is slightly better than it was before. Whereas the Koreans who study overseas for 6 months have phenomenally better English ability.


At hagwons, Koreans don't learn English for 8 years. They learn English for 1 year, 8 times.

[Weigookin74]

Korean children should start learning English from Kindergarden age. Barring that, they can also go abroad. These are the two main ways to achieve near fluency. Any Korean expert who does not have this near fluency themselves are in no position to question this. Sounds more like these "experts" are trying to make their nation uncompetitive by doing away with English education. Over the age of 11 or 12, kids begin to get set in their ways and thus the aquiring of a second language is much more difficult. In Korea the public school gives minimal education at younger elementary ages and pile it on in middle school. This causes a lot of memorization and a lot of unnecessary stress because they are always having to memorize.

[Zyzyfer]

[pkang0202]

You all have a pretty good idea on how much Koreans spend in Hagwons.

Would YOU ever justify spending all that money to learn a 2nd language? Chinese? Arabic?

I'm willing to bet most of you know there are better, more cost effective ways to get your kids to learn English. What's wrong with a group educating Koreans to the fact that Hagwons are essentially raping them in tuition costs and fees?"

[bobbyhanlon]

i think they're absolutely right. english fluency may be useful but the amount of time and money spent on it (often to little effect) is disproportionate. everyone knows korea is an over-competitive society, and the quest for toefl scores and the like is one of the greatest focuses of that competition. the majority of koreans will never need to use english at work, but the toefl score has become a way of ranking people, just like a degree from seoul-dae.

also when you have parents making average incomes but spending 1million a month on fancy english kindergartens, or even larger amounts on overseas study/yuhak, its no wonder that korean people don't have many kids any more. expenditure on english education is a big contributor to the low birth rate.

[jamesd]

Why is the government or a group of people trying to tell the parents not to do this and that? Their spending their hard earned money on something that may or may not benefit their children.

With the amount of money the government and parents spend on English education, they should just make the English their second language. This would force them to speak English from very early on and would eventually become all natural to them to speak English and Korean. And have real certified teachers from English speaking countries teaching various elective subjects all in English.

[coralreefer_1]

To further what was said above, (I also am in agreement with the article)...the amount of money spent weighed against the actual usage of English in the lives of the average person is outrageous.

For the vast majority of Koreans, English is a study in which this society demands on them in the form of taking a test, usually in the form of an actual written test like TOEIC/TEPs, the new NEAT exam, or otherwise for some job interview.

However the average person will never have a job that requires them to use English to the extent to justify all the years of study/stress and expense. Sure maybe a bit of English is good for the communication between casual foreigners and such, but the need for English is trumped up to be a "professional" requirement that I would guess less that 15% will actually have a need for.

Imagine a kid, put through all the years of English education typical..years of hagwons, thousands of dollars spent, hours of study to pass tests just to get into a high school or college, more study/expense to prepare for an English interview for a job working say, in a semiconductor lab for LG (a great job) that the person could work until retirement and NEVER need to speak English.

My point is the vast majority of Koreans will be working typical jobs for most if not all of their life where English will be of near non-existent importance to their field. Despite what some may argue, most Koreans do not work in the huge multinational companies, trade companies, Korean air..etc...and even those that do work in those types of companies, a decent percentage still have no need for functional English.

[Hugo85]

There are other ways to learn English, but sticking kids in a hagwon is probably the easiest way for the parent and the only way for some kids. I learned English (my second language) by playing video games online (back when the demographic was older), classes never really did anything for me... I didn't listen.

[Swampfox10mm]

What always seems to be overlooked as a part of this equation, and something I now know about after having children, is that many Koreans use hagwons as daycare.

The work culture in this country is insanely counter-productive, and it's not like the parents are home a lot to take care of the kids. My wife left a job with Maeil after just a few months because her boss was ripping on her for not staying until 10pm like everyone else (she went in at 9am). Anymore, both mom and dad are having to work to make ends meet. This is the REAL elephant in the room.

It should also be noted that the government has rules that kindy hagwons are not supposed to teach any English before noon. Most fudge it and do, but the gov't has made a serious effort to root English out of the kindergartens this year.

I imagine they are concerned about how much English is taking over the culture here, and the government probably wants people to spend, spend, spend money on other things to help drive the economy. The Chaebols don't control English in this country, and probably expect they should be getting a bigger piece of the pie, as well. That may sound nutty, but there is a lot of competition for family spending, and A LOT of other businesses/industries probably want a piece of that action.

[Juregen]

[definitely maybe]

[DIsbell]

From what I recall, there doesn't seem to be much support and consensus for the critical period hypothesis outside of native-like pronunciation (and even that can be overcome, albeit with more dedication, as actors show us).

I think we often conclude children can learn a second language so much easier without considering how much time is involved. We marvel at the quick progress kids in kindy here make, or back home in with a foreign nanny, etc and then look at how poor HS spanish students' ability is after a couple years of study. But if you look at a kindy program in Korea, you've got kids doing 5 hours a day of English, plus some homework and reading at home... I'm pretty sure most adults can and do show rapid progress when they are actively involved in an L2 environment for 5+ hours a day.

Also, if you talk to some of the English-fluent/near-fluent/highly-proficient younger Koreans today, most of them didn't start learning till about middle school.