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UN backs gay rights for first time ever

 
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Friend Lee Ghost



Joined: 06 Jun 2011

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 7:52 am    Post subject: UN backs gay rights for first time ever Reply with quote

23 of 47 nations voted for it, but only 19 against so it passes. I'd argue with their number of 76 countries where same-sex consensual activity is illegal. Depending upon the age of the participants, it could be illegal in all.

UN backs gay rights for first time ever

By FRANK JORDANS, Associated Press � Fri Jun 17, 7:29 pm ET

GENEVA � The United Nations endorsed the rights of gay, lesbian and transgender people for the first time ever Friday, passing a resolution hailed as historic by the U.S. and other backers and decried by some African and Muslim countries.

The declaration was cautiously worded, expressing "grave concern" about abuses because of sexual orientation and commissioning a global report on discrimination against gays.

But activists called it an important shift on an issue that has divided the global body for decades, and they credited the Obama administration's push for gay rights at home and abroad.

"This represents a historic moment to highlight the human rights abuses and violations that lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people face around the world based solely on who they are and whom they love," U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said in a statement.

Following tense negotiations, members of the Geneva-based U.N. Human Rights Council narrowly voted in favor of the declaration put forward by South Africa, with 23 votes in favor and 19 against.

Backers included the U.S., the European Union, Brazil and other Latin American countries. Those against included Russia, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria and Pakistan. China, Burkina Faso and Zambia abstained, Kyrgyzstan didn't vote and Libya was suspended from the rights body earlier.

The resolution expressed "grave concern at acts of violence and discrimination, in all regions of the world, committed against individuals because of their sexual orientation and gender identity." More important, activists said, it also established a formal U.N. process to document human rights abuses against gays, including discriminatory laws and acts of violence. According to Amnesty International, consensual same-sex relations are illegal in 76 countries worldwide, while harassment and discrimination are common in many more...
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john152



Joined: 26 May 2011

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is an interesting article. It makes it look like gay rights are the same as racial minority rights because being gay is an unchangable characteristic. The American Psychological Association (APA) afterall has said conversion therapy doesn't work.

My first thought is that if you have an active, vocal, and well organized gay advocates within the APA and no organized oposition then they are going to come up with that conclusion. My second thought is there is evidence homosexuals can change their sexual preference. The professional group http://narth.com/ has a lot of research on this subject.

On the spiritual side there have been many people who have overcome unwanted same sex attraction through the love and power of Jesus. This can be seen on the group http://exodusinternational.org/
In Korea there is a similar group called wellspring. http://wellspring.kr/200705/index.php


So I have to disagree with the resoning behind the resolution, because sexual preference/orientation can be changed. There are secular (narth) and religious organizations (wellspring) who do this.
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sevenseven7



Joined: 27 Nov 2010

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, why has this taken so long.
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ED209



Joined: 17 Oct 2006

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

john152 wrote:

So I have to disagree with the resoning behind the resolution, because sexual preference/orientation can be changed. There are secular (narth) and religious organizations (wellspring) who do this.


This comes across a little 'victim blaming'. The reasoning appears to be concerned with violence against these groups.

Quote:
unwanted same sex attraction


What if it isn't unwanted? Should these groups not be offered protection? The bill is concerned with protection of these groups, not any perceived treatment as a solution.

Quote:
My first thought is that if you have an active, vocal, and well organized gay advocates within the APA and no organized oposition then they are going to come up with that conclusion.


This sounds like conspiracy, what evidence is there to believe this?

Quote:

The professional group http://narth.com/ has a lot of research on this subject.


Didn't one of their 'advisers' get caught with a rent-boy?

Anyway, the argument isn't about 'curing gays', it's clearly a humanitarian one when governments ignore or endorse violence against a particular group, whether or not they had a choice in been part of that group.
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john152



Joined: 26 May 2011

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What if it isn't unwanted? Should these groups not be offered protection? The bill is concerned with protection of these groups, not any perceived treatment as a solution.

Of course almost everybody believes that violence against gays or anybody else is wrong, but this resolution could help hate crimes laws pass in countries. Many times hate crimes legislation infringes on Free Speech like a Grandmother who was visited by police simply for opposing a gay pride celebration in her town. Also if certain groups are given greater protection than others because of hate crimes laws it means that people who are not in a protected class could get short changed. See. http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2009/October/UK-Christian-Target-of-Hate-Crimes-Law/


Quote:
This sounds like conspiracy, what evidence is there to believe this?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1544401/posts

Quote:
Didn't one of their 'advisers' get caught with a rent-boy?


The person you are insinuating having sex with a gay prostitute has now resigned from NARTH he has a different story on the incident, we really don�t know the truth of what happened. Regardless of what happened the research NARTH has done stands for itself. Gay Activists can�t attack the research so they try to attack the people at NARTH instead.
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wishfullthinkng



Joined: 05 Mar 2010

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

john152 wrote:
On the spiritual side there have been many people who have overcome unwanted same sex attraction through the love and power of Jesus. This can be seen on the group http://exodusinternational.org/
In Korea there is a similar group called wellspring. http://wellspring.kr/200705/index.php


So I have to disagree with the resoning behind the resolution, because sexual preference/orientation can be changed. There are secular (narth) and religious organizations (wellspring) who do this.


"the spiritual side"? read your comment very carefully and hopefully you will see your idiocy. "there have been many people who have overcome unwanted same sex attraction through the love and power of jesus."

now sit and think. maybe not too hard because methinks you haven't developed much in the grey matter section.
do you think that when a homosexual person starts having their sexual feelings manifest during puberty that they immediately felt shameful about it or thought it was unwanted? nope, they sure as chips didn't. guess how they started feeling that way? people like you who judge them and tell them that it's wrong and they should feel like changing themselves, especially under the guise of some made-up deity.

ugh. people like you are the reason why this world simply doesn't work.

mods, for the love of cheesus please delete his post and mine. i'm sorry to go off, but it's just this type of ignorance that gets my engine going.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

john152 wrote:

Of course almost everybody believes that violence against gays or anybody else is wrong, but this resolution could help hate crimes laws pass in countries.


What? Violence against homosexuals is not only widely tolerated (from a global perspective), but is actually built into the legal system in a number of nations. I don't see how you can pretend there's some broad global consensus about anti-homosexual violence being wrong. There's a certain degree of Western consensus on the matter, but there's more to the world than merely the West.

The following countries, under the current law, can execute homosexuals, meaning violence against homosexuals is not only accepted as right, but legally required:
-Afghanistan
-Iran
-Mauritania
-Pakistan
-Nigeria
-Saudi Arabia
-Sudan
-Yemen
-UAE

Iraq also had a law regarding the execution of homosexuals which would still be in effect today if not for the United States invasion. On top of that, a number of other nations, although they do not execute homosexuals, have none the less criminalized it, meaning homosexuals are institutionally subjected to violence in the form of undeserved abduction and incarceration. And that doesn't even begin to scratch the surface regarding societies where, although the law doesn't actively condemn homosexuality, violence against homosexuals is tolerated.

Whether homosexuals can change their orientation or not, violence against them -- be it state-mandated execution, state-mandated abduction and incarceration, or merely private violence that is tolerated by the society in question -- is totally unacceptable, and it is right to stand up and decry it.

It's clear you care about your fellow man; your posts about the North Koreans make that obvious. It would be nice if you could extend that compassion to homosexuals and recognize that their lives -- regardless of what you think about the choices they make -- are of value and that we should work to preserve them. One way to do that is to actively and vigorously condemn both anti-homosexual violence and the institutional stigmatization of homosexuals which leads to said violence. That is what resolutions like this are really about.


Last edited by Fox on Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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ED209



Joined: 17 Oct 2006

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

john152 wrote:

Of course almost everybody believes that violence against gays or anybody else is wrong, but this resolution could help hate crimes laws pass in countries. Many times hate crimes legislation infringes on Free Speech like a Grandmother who was visited by police simply for opposing a gay pride celebration in her town.


Free speech would be a different issue as many of these countries don't have a first amendment right. Yet this bill would support freer speech in that it push for the rights of these individuals. This doesn't necessarily mean we are on a slippery slope where grannies are locked up. What we do have is people been persecuted for not been hetero and this has to stop.

I'm glad you agree that violence is wrong, if such a bill was passed to protect religious minorities such as Christians in the Middle East or Indonesia I'm sure we would both agree on the good intentions of the bill. And that it wouldn't lead to the Ten Commandments been carved into the pyramids. Hate crime laws as they are, shouldn't be used as an excuse to deny free speech nor as excuse to deny this resolution.


Quote:

The person you are insinuating having sex with a gay prostitute has now resigned from NARTH he has a different story on the incident, we really don�t know the truth of what happened. Regardless of what happened the research NARTH has done stands for itself. Gay Activists can�t attack the research so they try to attack the people at NARTH instead.


It's all irrelevant anyway. Even if you could make 99 out of 100 gay people straight(I haven't seen any figures on NARTH's success rate) that one person deserves the rights afforded to everyone else.

Thanks for the link I'm unfamiliar with the APA (perhaps because I'm British). I'm sure they can be criticized on many levels for bias. However no direct link was made by Jeffrey Satinover. Some names would have been useful. The article also uses a argument I've seen more often from Alternative Therapy sites which claim that doctors are trying to take away patient autonomy. Still, this is all irrelevant, if you want to discuss NARTH and gay-straight conversions maybe doing so in a new thread would be better.

For now I would suggest looking closer at the actual resolution to see what it contains and if the world would be any different without it.
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wishfullthinkng



Joined: 05 Mar 2010

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well said fox. also less brash than my post.

although i wish no ill will on anyone, i do wish that the sheer logic of my post keeps the op up for many nites scratching his head wondering what that strange new tingle in his brain is and how he can get more of it.
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Sergio Stefanuto



Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank goodness the anachronistic plague of democracy is all but at an end, where the pig-ignorant, parasitic rabble has the carte blanche to restrict individuals and minorities from pursuing their own interests to the full.

The dawn of a Second Enlightenment surely beckons.
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The person you are insinuating having sex with a gay prostitute has now resigned from NARTH he has a different story on the incident, we really don�t know the truth of what happened.


Here is that person's version of the story...

Quote:
Reached by New Times before a trip to Bermuda, Rekers said he learned Lucien was a prostitute only midway through their vacation. "I had surgery," Rekers said, "and I can't lift luggage. That's why I hired him." (Medical problems didn't stop him from pushing the tottering baggage cart through MIA.)

Yet Rekers wouldn't deny he met his slender, blond escort at Rentboy.com � which features homepage images of men in bondage and grainy videos of crotch-rubbing twinks � and Lucien confirmed it.



So, yeah. Rentboy dot com. Draw your own conclusions about why he went to that website.

link
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