Korean Job Discussion Forums

[captain kirk]

I think my hagwon is a bit bonkers, or it's driving me batty (one of the two). Does this sound like your hagwon?
There are seven Korean English teachers, all female. The bosses are female. The two foreign teachers are male. I've heard that this tends to 'spoil' the kids making it harder to 'keep rule' for the guys. But certain kids just seem spoiled anyway. NOT the younger ones, the getting on to thirteen, that age and up. Because they slump and fool around trying to be as disruptive and lackadaisical as possible because foreign teacher time is party time. If I sternly set them straight and sit them up straight and tell them they can't even make a complete sentence in front of the boss I've called in they tell the boss it's my teaching method and high speed of speech which doesn't 'do it for them' . The boss listens to this and looks at me like I'm defective. It's then that I realize that I'm here for the kids and so is she. These certain punks wasting their parents money are IT. I'm here to keep their money flowing into the pockets of the boss. The boss says that one of the students has finished Side By Side 2 as if to say he's very competent and accomplished. This is after I've pointed out that he's one of the monkeys who can't make a sentence. After she leaves they do make an effort, take it seriously, and make sentences after all. But the most manipulative male teen heads to the 'home room' teacher after class to 'report' about how 'unreasonable' and 'harrassing' I've been to him and his friends.
There is a meeting Mondays the foreign teachers don't attend. It is for the bosses and the Korean female English teachers. I've been at hagwons where I've been at the weekly meeting and that's been good and bad. But here it's just not an offered option from the start. If we finish a book (along with reviewing it a couple of times) then the boss says 'the homeroom teacher will test the students' in a tone as if that will settle the matter, whether the kids will level up to the next text or not. The boss really doesn't want to hear anything from the foreign teacher about anything.
And if the boss is called in to set some kids straight they act like it's a deficiency of the foreign teacher. Awhile ago the other foreign teacher had some trouble with two classes in one day and left the job, but returned the next day. Now, I don't agree with that but he did it and the result was the bosses and Korean female English teachers aren't talking to him much at all. His stock went down, 'apparently', about eighty percent. When I first arrived at this school I heard about how there had been a parade of misfits preceding me, some really serious. They didn't care about the children, etc. I've towed the line and do care about the children but my 'stock has gone down' in the last month, as well, it seems. I've been here four months and the new foreign teacher a month. My take on the situation is it's a 'no-win' situation. There are certain spoilt teens who don't want to study because study is tiresome and unpleasant . The foreign teacher isn't worthy of respect from the students, staff, and boss. But must be 'a good teacher'. Most of the classes are ok. But the middle school is horrendous. Tell the boss or Korean teachers some of the stuff that goes on and they think you're 'making it up'. As a result it's counterproductive to involve the Korean teachers or the boss in any kind of 'problems' with classes. You just look 'weak' and 'incompetent' not able to 'manage yourself'.
The higher level middle school students prefer a Korean teacher because, I think, it's more effortless to breeze into Korean language to bridge the gaps. This may be true, but it's also lazy of them. Nevertheless it's what they want. And the foreign teacher here is a product of wants. Korean wants. It's only in the spoilt middle school classes that the feeling of being a 'hired goof' is one of 'no exits' and 'let me outta here'
Teens give me the heebie jeebies, particularly since I had a rough time through the teens. With the under twelves being seen as a proper English teacher is no problem and I love the work. But the kids thirteen and up want control of their lives. They seem to grab onto the perception many Koreans have of the foreigner as fool and through that lens belittle any chances of getting their mom's money's worth out of English class. It just seems pathetic to try to 'get on their good side' by pandering to them and following up on their good sides, their interests. And I'm talking about the lippy, sassy ones. There's no asserting one's authority as a teacher with them. It seems just to provoke them. Spoit, man. Rotten.

[The Den]

I agree with what you have said. I used to teach adults in a hagwon. It was split shifts and they expected a lot from you but the people attending those classes were fairly serious. Oh sure there was the odd class of university students that wanted some fun but I was happy to accomodate them, they did not have the sullen attitudes the kids have.

Last night I prepared my Friday night lesson and the kids just sat there. I almost prefer rowdy behaviour to the silent stare. Like robots. I used to get mad but I don't anymore because it does not do any good so I we just stared at the wall quietly for 20 minutes. It is a real joke.

[crazylemongirl]

You're probably going to hate me but I'm going to stick up for the middle schoolers. I don't think that they are spoilt rotten (that's elementary school time) it's that their lives completly suck.

At the moment they have probably just finished test season and are having enough trouble trying to maintain concentration in their regular classes let alone hogwon classes after getting only a few hours sleep a night for a few weeks.

Yes I'm probably biased as I see them at the better part of the day. But believe me I see some boys that are probably on par with some of your sullen teenagers. But they are in a highly rigid school enviroment they spend another 8 hours in after school classes. It's one of the few times that the kids are going to get a chance to act out so they will.

[just because]

I have both extremes.

Captain Kirk, i have one class with 5 boys that all need a lesson in good behaviour but as you said, i am a hired goon so i just grin and bear it.

On the other hand a couple of the other middle school classes are great and really want to learn and talk very well and intelligently which puts a smile on my face.

I do agree with CLG,
Think about it this way, by the time they get to you I'm betting it is at least 8:00 at night. Imagine starting school at 9:00 in the morning and still be learning(involuntarily mostly) at 8 at night when you were their age. I think i would be crankier and more restless than them.

[tomato]

[PatrickSiheung]

I had a middle school class that never listened. They would do nothing but talk and play with their handphones. When I'd ask questions or try and get a discussion going, I got nothing but blank stares. About 80% didn't even seem to speak English! I complained to the directors that we needed better text books. We needed to get these kids writing instead of just talking, at least that way they would be kept busy and not able to play as much. I was ignored for 6 months. Finally I just grabbed another text book and started working from it. I wrote on the board and made them copy everything. What do you know... they were good. Finally they started writing things down and answering questions. The directors wanted a free-talking class. Pfffft, it wasn't until I took the initiative that things got under control.

I also came to Korea wanting to teach. I thought I could make a difference in some lives and maybe help them to improve their English... call me bitter but that just doesn't happen often. I found the younger kids to be the best. Middle school and up? forget it! Everyone's against you.
Appearance is everything, results mean nothing.

The directors and other korean teachers pretend to care, but they don't. Just get into that class and get through the hour. You may feel like you're a hired goon but you're taking their money, right? Who's the bigger fool? You? or the stupid people paying you to be wallpaper?

I wouldn't complain to the directors anymore. Just make it seem like you have everything under control and get through the books. Maybe even rave about how well the students are doing sometimes. Everyone will be happy then. The sooner you go with the flow and stop trying to change your students, the better. The directors will blame you for anything that goes wrong, it's common practice, so you may as well stop stressing about it.

[captain kirk]

Well, you're absolutely right CLG, the lives of middle schoolers DO 'leave a lot to be desired' . And, given that, whatever 'gets you through the hour', right. I just walked by a little park where a middle school girl sat on a swing beside her younger sister on the next swing who was swinging away. Not the older sister. It's a rainy day and she looked more like she had the blues. Yes, it's the four day testing time and yes, the middle schoolers look like they are having a difficult time focusing. And I mean the 'good students' who want to study, have an 'English bug' and want to expand their abilities and make use of the time. Don't forget there are a few of those; I know that.
I met some students who, when I asked them where they would go in their lives if they had a time machine said 'baby school/kindergarten'. I said 'what?!'. Because you don't have any money, can't make your own decisions and are utterly dependent in Kindergarten. But they wanted to go back to baby school, already being in middle school and with highschool coming up. The long hours, the sitting up straight, the cramming and all the while, yes, having no money or ability to make their own decisions, really. That's the age you want control of your life and to differentiate yourself from being a dependent child. But it's a 'no go' in the rigid system.
The new teacher, who is 'specializing' in taking on the forty percent middle school at our school, 'plays' with them between classes by letting them take pictures with his handphone. Someone mentioned here how middle schoolers seem only interested in playing with their handphones. So he 'plays their own game' seems his 'strategy'.
I'm pretty sure the middle schoolers aren't 'tested' on their ability to 'do' the Side by Side textbook by the homeroom teacher. The elementary kids are, because the elementary kids are trick ponies doing the work, unlike the older kids. It would seem, then, that 'being there for them' in some way that they can digest happily, like a 'big brother' or 'cool guy' is preferable to coming on strong like another authority figure they're used to but who doesn't have a stick.
Look deeper, I guess. They act horrendously because their lives are cack, perhaps.

[TheUrbanMyth]

[matthews_world]

Can't get bored kids to talk in class?

Try that Word Up conversation game. There was a thread about it a week or so ago.

I haven't purchased it yet but when I do, I'll use it at the end of the month for my new adult students.