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Mankor
Joined: 15 Jun 2011 Location: ROK
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:33 pm Post subject: Being fired (perhaps) |
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My boss seems to be unfairly making life difficult for me at the moment and I think she may be trying to make me hand in my resignation letter. Anyway, I have decided that if she wants me to leave then the only way is to sack me as I will not leave of my own accord. Is it true that if she does fire me she has to give me a months notice?
She let slip that the school was struggling financially and then a week later all the extra work and writing lesson plans, class observations etc began.
Thanks for your replies in advance. |
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morrisonhotel
Joined: 18 Jul 2009 Location: Gyeonggi-do
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:38 pm Post subject: Re: Being fired (perhaps) |
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Mankor wrote: |
Is it true that if she does fire me she has to give me a months notice? |
That would depend largely on how long you have been there. Less than 6 months? Start getting your documents together for a new job now. After 6 months, then yes she has to give you 30 days notice or pay in lieu. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:19 am Post subject: Re: Being fired (perhaps) |
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Mankor wrote: |
My boss seems to be unfairly making life difficult for me at the moment and I think she may be trying to make me hand in my resignation letter. Anyway, I have decided that if she wants me to leave then the only way is to sack me as I will not leave of my own accord. Is it true that if she does fire me she has to give me a months notice?
She let slip that the school was struggling financially and then a week later all the extra work and writing lesson plans, class observations etc began.
Thanks for your replies in advance. |
It may not be that your boss wants to fire you.
If your school is doing poorly, it could be that your boss wants the school to do better. This probably means that your school needs to do a better job teaching its students. Since you are a teacher there, it is you who needs to improve in order to make the school better. So, you are now being expected to do the job of actually preparing for class and actually teaching the students. Ostensibly this is why you are here, so you should not object to these things. Try to be a better teacher.
Of course, it's possible that your school will fail anyway. Many schools just have no teaching program and the students learn little to nothing. It could be that no matter what you do, your school is going to fail. Even so, you should do your best so that it isn't you that makes the school fail.
It is also possible for a teacher to be beyond redemption (hopefully not you in your case). No matter how hard that person tries, and many just don't try at all anyway, he or she will fail as a teacher. That teacher deserves to be fired. In that case, such a warning requiring lesson plans and class observation could be the last chance for that teacher to save his or her job before being justifiably terminated. |
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DaHu
Joined: 09 Feb 2011
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Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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I disagree. The school is in financial difficulty, the manager thinks that making busy work for the teacher will improve things. Thus, more observations and lesson plans. The incorrect answer for everything is "more lesson plans".
Students may be quitting because their friends are at another school or they are not having enough fun at this school. "Why aren't they having fun?" is the question the manager should be asking. The observations might find something, or maybe it's with the other staff.
Students don't go home to mommy and complain that the school isn't strenuous enough and they need to learn more. They say it's no fun, they want to go somewhere else.
While this might seem against learning, I believe students will learn better when they get some fun and entertainment, so it kind of goes together. But if their friends are somewhere else and they want to go there, there's not much you can do to keep them.
Schools typically blame the teachers for everything, so get ready for that. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
While this might seem against learning, I believe students will learn better when they get some fun and entertainment, so it kind of goes together |
I believe this too, though I don't know why you think it's against learning.
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The incorrect answer for everything is "more lesson plans".
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I don't get this bit. surely if students learn better when they have fun and entertainment a teacher should plan carefully to provide this for them during the lesson. If you don't plan and go into the lesson with the sole purpose of entertaining, you'll probably end up playing bomb, hangman or whatever else for an hour. If you don't plan and go into the lesson with the sole idea of imparting knowledge on the kids, you'll probably end up doing a boring book based lesson for an hour. To make it fun and worthwhile takes some planning and hence a lesson plan no? |
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PastorYoon

Joined: 25 Jun 2010 Location: Sea of Japan
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Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:30 pm Post subject: Re: Being fired (perhaps) |
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Mankor wrote: |
My boss seems to be unfairly making life difficult for me at the moment and I think she may be trying to make me hand in my resignation letter. Anyway, I have decided that if she wants me to leave then the only way is to sack me as I will not leave of my own accord. Is it true that if she does fire me she has to give me a months notice?
She let slip that the school was struggling financially and then a week later all the extra work and writing lesson plans, class observations etc began.
Thanks for your replies in advance. |
Week 1: "Be funny Englisheee teacher. Happy student OKAY!"
Week 2: "Student mother angry. School money problem. Difficult. Understand? Mother complain. Working hard. Working hard!"
Week 3: "Let's be funny teaching. Student complaining. Mother, father, talking about."
Week 4: "Students not learning the Englisheee. More homework. Mother want a progress!"
Week 5: Pull a runner. |
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ssuprnova
Joined: 17 Dec 2010 Location: Saigon
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:47 am Post subject: Re: Being fired (perhaps) |
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PastorYoon wrote: |
Week 1: "Be funny Englisheee teacher. Happy student OKAY!"
Week 2: "Student mother angry. School money problem. Difficult. Understand? Mother complain. Working hard. Working hard!"
Week 3: "Let's be funny teaching. Student complaining. Mother, father, talking about."
Week 4: "Students not learning the Englisheee. More homework. Mother want a progress!"
Week 5: Pull a runner. |
This is exactly what happens in my hagwon except it's not measured in weeks but rather months... phases of "dance, monkey!" followed by "the parents are complaining, can you make everyone fluent within a week or so?"
ugh! |
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Zackback
Joined: 05 Nov 2010 Location: Kyungbuk
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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Pastor Yoon's posts (from what I have seen lately) are spot on.
Pull a runner. |
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Bruce W Sims
Joined: 08 Mar 2011 Location: Illinois; USA
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:14 pm Post subject: Re: Being fired (perhaps) |
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Mankor wrote: |
My boss seems to be unfairly making life difficult for me at the moment and I think she may be trying to make me hand in my resignation letter. Anyway, I have decided that if she wants me to leave then the only way is to sack me as I will not leave of my own accord. Is it true that if she does fire me she has to give me a months notice?
She let slip that the school was struggling financially and then a week later all the extra work and writing lesson plans, class observations etc began.
Thanks for your replies in advance. |
Can you say a little something about your classroom management, preparation and teaching style?
Best Wishes,
Bruce |
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Mankor
Joined: 15 Jun 2011 Location: ROK
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:01 am Post subject: Re: Being fired (perhaps) |
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Bruce W Sims wrote: |
Mankor wrote: |
My boss seems to be unfairly making life difficult for me at the moment and I think she may be trying to make me hand in my resignation letter. Anyway, I have decided that if she wants me to leave then the only way is to sack me as I will not leave of my own accord. Is it true that if she does fire me she has to give me a months notice?
She let slip that the school was struggling financially and then a week later all the extra work and writing lesson plans, class observations etc began.
Thanks for your replies in advance. |
Can you say a little something about your classroom management, preparation and teaching style?
Best Wishes,
Bruce |
Hi Bruce, yes of course I can. Re: classroom management; My classes are generally well behaved and I am sometimes quite strict about certain things.
Mainly I don't like the kids laughing at kids who are trying to speak as this just deters them from trying next time. I do try to stamp that out when it occurs (which is frequently). I feel that I am always fair with the kids and go through the disciplinary process laid out by the school if or when a problem arises. Recently however, I have been trying to deal with behavior problems myself (in the form of a stern word or two) because I found out that a child was hit as a direct result of me having sent them to the manager. I perhaps naively thought that the manager would ring their parents, I now know that corporal punishment is unfortunately the norm.
Because I try to cut out the bad behavior the manager has said that the kids don't like me. I stated that I was not there to be popular but to educate (again another naive outlook). I take teaching very seriously and it frustrates me when I see fellow teachers playing hangman for 40 minutes and I get further annoyed when I see that they still have a job (I got fired today) because the kids like them for the lack of work that they make them do.
In terms of teaching style. Well of course this must be tailored to the students needs, I'm sure that you appreciate that there is no 'one size fits all' approach. I suppose a common theme throughout my lessons is that of a multi-sensory nature. I don't like the kids to be confined to their desks and I not only allow but encourage free movement, I use lots of visual aids, so, photographs, real objects, things that the students can not only look at but touch as well. For example, if I were teaching vocabulary for different fruits I have brought in lemons, melons, strawberries etc.. Not only can the kids see these objects in the flesh but they can feel them and taste them, this leads to follow on questions, e.g. How does the lemon taste?
It don't like saying this as it seems somewhat arrogant, but I have taught EFL to immigrants in England in London and Manchester and I have only received positive feedback from students and my line managers. I just don't understand why they sacked me when from what I can see there are others in the same institution that are just coasting and waiting for their severance pay. |
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Bruce W Sims
Joined: 08 Mar 2011 Location: Illinois; USA
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:34 am Post subject: |
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Thanks, Mankor; that really helps frame things for me.
What I have found in my own Teaching career is that often a teacher has to accomplish their mission almost in spite of the institution or agency for which they work. You are probably aware of the phrase "under the radar", yes? In fact you noted the behavior of others who are just time-structuring with their students. Still, they can do this because they are able to keep what they do under the management's "radar", right? Unfortunately, your teaching ethics and approach did not allow you to stay under the radar AND feel good about your impact on the students---both at the same time.
The interview process is suppose to help the teacher and the institution determine whether there is a goodness-of-fit between the teacher's approach and the institution's approach. From what you have shared it sounds like this didn't happen and your more professional approach to teaching may have come into conflict with a more mercenary sensibility of the business. I don't think a lot of newbies-fresh-out-of-school would be sensitive to this distinction. From what I read in the postings here, not a few of the contributors to these threads don't view their positions as actual teaching assignments and there are probably a lot of agencies and institutions that feel that same way.
IMHO your experience was a valuable (if costly) lesson. If you are going to be a professional, expect to be a minority. Most students cross pathes with Education because they are being compelled to or because they are seeking some sort of pay-off. Folks investing in Education for the sake of working up to their potential are few and far between. Its sounds as though your Teaching model assumes a higher level of motivation than than what your placement provided. Now you know that and can look for it in the next position.
Hold tight to your Teaching values and keep an eye open for people who think like you do. You didn't lose a job; they lost a teacher. FWIW.
Best Wishes,
Bruce |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:33 am Post subject: |
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Bruce W Sims wrote: |
What I have found in my own Teaching career is that often a teacher has to accomplish their mission almost in spite of the institution or agency for which they work. You are probably aware of the phrase "under the radar", yes? In fact you noted the behavior of others who are just time-structuring with their students. Still, they can do this because they are able to keep what they do under the management's "radar", right? Unfortunately, your teaching ethics and approach did not allow you to stay under the radar AND feel good about your impact on the students---both at the same time. |
I think you're a bit optimistic about the way a lot of hagwons work. While mine is quite serious and I worry about playing hangman for ten minutes once a month if the kids are good, there are a hell of a lot more where there's little to no oversight until the moment parents complain. At the end of the day, hagwons at large are in the business of business, not the business of education. |
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Bruce W Sims
Joined: 08 Mar 2011 Location: Illinois; USA
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:30 am Post subject: |
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northway wrote: |
(clip)
I think you're a bit optimistic about the way a lot of hagwons work. While mine is quite serious and I worry about playing hangman for ten minutes once a month if the kids are good, there are a hell of a lot more where there's little to no oversight until the moment parents complain. At the end of the day, hagwons at large are in the business of business, not the business of education. |
Certainly, you are very right. Never having worked in one, what I don't know about such businesses would probably fill a small library.
And then, think about things through the eyes of someone who has just come into this world, right? I read posts about people concerned with getting their paperwork together, being required to do preparation, being forced to work overtime, poor living conditions, over-bearing bosses, etc etc etc. The question that immediately pops into my head is a.) how did it get to be this way and b.) what keeps it going?
1.) If the requirements are nothing more than a Bachelors Degree, maybe Teaching Cert and being a Native speaker of the English language all you have to add is "no foreseeable prospects at home" and a dash of boredom and you have a warm body to fill a position. Presto; "instant babysitter".
2.) And if anyone with a pulse can hang a shingle indicating that they can teach the English language with no accountability for Reading, Writing, Comprehension and Conversation why the surprise at the poor quality of administration?
Writing strictly as an outsider I can suggest that the sorts of results that I read about here are actually pretty predictable given the circumstances and attitudes. Education is about believing in something greater than one's Self. That translates behaviorally into being a "giver" and not a "taker". My goal is to locate a school whose views reflect these sorts of priorities. If I settle for less and wind-up unhappy and frustrated I could probably blame the employer but the real responsibility is on me. Wouldn't you agree?
Best Wishes,
Bruce |
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PastorYoon

Joined: 25 Jun 2010 Location: Sea of Japan
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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ssuprnova wrote: |
PastorYoon wrote: |
Week 1: "Be funny Englisheee teacher. Happy student OKAY!"
Week 2: "Student mother angry. School money problem. Difficult. Understand? Mother complain. Working hard. Working hard!"
Week 3: "Let's be funny teaching. Student complaining. Mother, father, talking about."
Week 4: "Students not learning the Englisheee. More homework. Mother want a progress!"
Week 5: Pull a runner. |
This is exactly what happens in my hagwon except it's not measured in weeks but rather months... phases of "dance, monkey!" followed by "the parents are complaining, can you make everyone fluent within a week or so?"
ugh! |
Just keep a nice smile while you're outside of the classroom. It's all such BS. Absolute BS.
I absolutely will not accept screaming or even talking while I'm talking or giving instructions during my classes. I'm a dick if they break this rule. After that, I'm genuinely and instantly a "funny teacher". However, if the kid has it in his plans to just disrespect me, it's over for that kid for the day.
I had never even heard of a teacher using a whistle in a classroom before myself. I don't enjoy blowing the whistle, but the kids' behavior is just so bad. It's unbelievably bad... like I'm in a zoo. I just don't put up with it. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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Bruce W Sims wrote: |
Certainly, you are very right. Never having worked in one, what I don't know about such businesses would probably fill a small library.
And then, think about things through the eyes of someone who has just come into this world, right? I read posts about people concerned with getting their paperwork together, being required to do preparation, being forced to work overtime, poor living conditions, over-bearing bosses, etc etc etc. The question that immediately pops into my head is a.) how did it get to be this way and b.) what keeps it going?
1.) If the requirements are nothing more than a Bachelors Degree, maybe Teaching Cert and being a Native speaker of the English language all you have to add is "no foreseeable prospects at home" and a dash of boredom and you have a warm body to fill a position. Presto; "instant babysitter".
2.) And if anyone with a pulse can hang a shingle indicating that they can teach the English language with no accountability for Reading, Writing, Comprehension and Conversation why the surprise at the poor quality of administration?
Writing strictly as an outsider I can suggest that the sorts of results that I read about here are actually pretty predictable given the circumstances and attitudes. Education is about believing in something greater than one's Self. That translates behaviorally into being a "giver" and not a "taker". My goal is to locate a school whose views reflect these sorts of priorities. If I settle for less and wind-up unhappy and frustrated I could probably blame the employer but the real responsibility is on me. Wouldn't you agree?
Best Wishes,
Bruce |
Maybe, but good luck finding a hagwon that is in the business of education first and foremost. I'm not even sure that such a thing is possible, considering their absolute concern has to be the bottom line at the end of the day. Perhaps an international school might fit your needs, but even then, the majority are profit driven enterprises, per my understanding. I would say my school is staffed by people who really care about the kids, from the administration on down, which is part of the reason they're able to charge a million won a month. Even then, my managers are very honest about the fact that they can't care about education above all else, as ownership ultimately insists on turning a profit (understandably). Good luck finding a school that won't frustrate you with its business oriented educational decisions. |
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