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Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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 Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:38 pm Post subject: Women everywhere should be ashamed of themselves (link) |
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One trend I have noticed in the past twenty years or so is the eagerness of many, many women to use the new sexual harassment meme within our culture for personal gain. No, this is not an isolated thing. It happens ALL THE TIME. It is repugnant and it deserves to be confronted in a public manner instead of being swept under the table. The DSK thing is simply one instance that came to light simply because of the notoriety of the falsely accused. These types of things happen in much subtler ways throughout modern society -- very often as threats that never come to any kind of legislation. It is repugnant and women need to be confronted with it just as men have been confronted with it, even if the majority never harassed anyone.
For shame. Yes, collective punishment is appropriate.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/maid_cleaning_up_as_hooker_0mMd759PLuYGYYJyA0RNbI/1 |
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Fat_Elvis
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: In the ghetto
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:40 am Post subject: |
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| It seems a little bit over-the-top to blame all women for the actions of one woman. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:28 am Post subject: |
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| I think the OP should be ashamed of that title. |
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Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:02 am Post subject: |
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Yes, it certainly is. It most certainly, certainly is is...what is the moral here?
| Fat_Elvis wrote: |
| It seems a little bit over-the-top to blame all women for the actions of one woman. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:08 am Post subject: |
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| As a male, I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is a game that men will probably lose. |
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Fat_Elvis
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: In the ghetto
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:45 am Post subject: |
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| Trevor wrote: |
Yes, it certainly is. It most certainly, certainly is is...what is the moral here?
| Fat_Elvis wrote: |
| It seems a little bit over-the-top to blame all women for the actions of one woman. |
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The moral: don't generalise. You don't even know if the woman is guilty of the things the article accuses her of. The article says "sources" told the Post - which "sources"? |
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Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:10 am Post subject: |
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Erm, we don't know if DSK was guilty either and the NYPD marched him through a perp walk in handcuffs. Is anyone thinking of sending her through a perp walk before she is convicted?
| Fat_Elvis wrote: |
| Trevor wrote: |
Yes, it certainly is. It most certainly, certainly is is...what is the moral here?
| Fat_Elvis wrote: |
| It seems a little bit over-the-top to blame all women for the actions of one woman. |
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The moral: don't generalise. You don't even know if the woman is guilty of the things the article accuses her of. The article says "sources" told the Post - which "sources"? |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:12 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The moral: don't generalise. |
Excuse me, sir. If men can't generalize, how can we push the idea that we, especially we white men, are the victims--victims of society in general, victims of women in general, victims of liberals in general, victims of the darkies in general? Hmm? I ask you, how? |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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Most damning to the case is that she flat-out lied on her asylum application
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Shameful. This woman should have taken her moral guidance from the Korean ESL community, none of whom would ever give anything but a truthful answer to the question "Have you ever taken illegal drugs?" on the immigration form. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
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Most damning to the case is that she flat-out lied on her asylum application
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Shameful. This woman should have taken her moral guidance from the Korean ESL community, none of whom would ever give anything but a truthful answer to the question "Have you ever taken illegal drugs?" on the immigration form. |
I understand the point you're trying to make, but surely a history of lying under oath both in general and in specific about being raped is relevant when considering whether we should send a man to jail based purely on her accusation of rape? How can anyone seriously be certain beyond a reasonable doubt here? |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| On the other hand wrote: |
| Quote: |
Most damning to the case is that she flat-out lied on her asylum application
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Shameful. This woman should have taken her moral guidance from the Korean ESL community, none of whom would ever give anything but a truthful answer to the question "Have you ever taken illegal drugs?" on the immigration form. |
I understand the point you're trying to make, but surely a history of lying under oath both in general and in specific about being raped is relevant when considering whether we should send a man to jail based purely on her accusation of rape? How can anyone seriously be certain beyond a reasonable doubt here? |
The bruising of the vagina, the semen, etc. There was sexual contact, so that goes a long way. At the very least he is guilty of solicitation with a prostitute. It is very clear that he commited some kind of crime, now I suppose all that's left to do is determine to what degree he did wrong. At least this whole incident stopped this clearly depraved and sleazy man from being the president of France. His record is equally questionable as the womans, so it's anyones guess about what actually happened. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| On the other hand wrote: |
| Quote: |
Most damning to the case is that she flat-out lied on her asylum application
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Shameful. This woman should have taken her moral guidance from the Korean ESL community, none of whom would ever give anything but a truthful answer to the question "Have you ever taken illegal drugs?" on the immigration form. |
I understand the point you're trying to make, but surely a history of lying under oath both in general and in specific about being raped is relevant when considering whether we should send a man to jail based purely on her accusation of rape? How can anyone seriously be certain beyond a reasonable doubt here? |
The bruising of the vagina, the semen, etc. |
All proves sex, none proves non-consensual. The non-consensual aspect of the sexual intercourse relies 100% on her word.
| Leon wrote: |
| At the very least he is guilty of solicitation with a prostitute. |
If you can prove he paid her for sexual intercourse, or even offered to pay her, that is true. Can you? This whole presumption of guilt thing you guys have going on here really plays into Trevor's point quite well.
| Leon wrote: |
| It is very clear that he commited some kind of crime ... |
No, it's not, at least by the standards we are supposed to use to determine whether crimes are committed. The fact that so many people think this way is precisely why the current jury system makes me so uncomfortable. I wonder how many innocent men are sitting in prison right now because such attitudes, and I lament the fact that the number is almost assuredly above zero.
I implore you to reconsider, not because you have any direct bearing on this case, but because you may someday have bearing on a similar case, and because your views no doubt do influence other people in your life to at least some degree. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| On the other hand wrote: |
| Quote: |
Most damning to the case is that she flat-out lied on her asylum application
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Shameful. This woman should have taken her moral guidance from the Korean ESL community, none of whom would ever give anything but a truthful answer to the question "Have you ever taken illegal drugs?" on the immigration form. |
I understand the point you're trying to make, but surely a history of lying under oath both in general and in specific about being raped is relevant when considering whether we should send a man to jail based purely on her accusation of rape? How can anyone seriously be certain beyond a reasonable doubt here? |
The bruising of the vagina, the semen, etc. |
All proves sex, none proves non-consensual. The non-consensual aspect of the sexual intercourse relies 100% on her word.
| Leon wrote: |
| At the very least he is guilty of solicitation with a prostitute. |
If you can prove he paid her for sexual intercourse, or even offered to pay her, that is true. Can you? This whole presumption of guilt thing you guys have going on here really plays into Trevor's point quite well.
| Leon wrote: |
| It is very clear that he commited some kind of crime ... |
No, it's not, at least by the standards we are supposed to use to determine whether crimes are committed. The fact that so many people think this way is precisely why the current jury system makes me so uncomfortable. I wonder how many innocent men are sitting in prison right now because such attitudes, and I lament the fact that the number is almost assuredly above zero.
I implore you to reconsider, not because you have any direct bearing on this case, but because you may someday have bearing on a similar case, and because your views no doubt do influence other people in your life to at least some degree. |
I can not think of any conceivable way that this wasn't by force, or for money. It is possible, but of course its very hard to elimate all doubt in any criminal case. All the factors point towards one or the other. Why would this woman just walk into his room, a frankly unnattractive older man, and think damn I just have to have it? That is inconceviable to me. Also why would he, a powerful older married man, think it was normal for maid to want to have causual sex with him? This is also inconceivable to me. I can buy that it was consensqual prostitution, or that it was rape, but any other situation is just too unlikely and bizare. I'm really curious to hear his side of the story, because there is no way he can come out of this looking good. Either he says he's the type of man who propose the help for causual sex, or he thinks it is normal for the help to propose to him, and then has hard core intercourse with them, so hard that it bruises them. It doesn't add up, especially considering that he has been accused of similar things in the past, and is well known for being sleazy. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| On the other hand wrote: |
| Quote: |
Most damning to the case is that she flat-out lied on her asylum application
|
Shameful. This woman should have taken her moral guidance from the Korean ESL community, none of whom would ever give anything but a truthful answer to the question "Have you ever taken illegal drugs?" on the immigration form. |
I understand the point you're trying to make, but surely a history of lying under oath both in general and in specific about being raped is relevant when considering whether we should send a man to jail based purely on her accusation of rape? How can anyone seriously be certain beyond a reasonable doubt here? |
The bruising of the vagina, the semen, etc. |
All proves sex, none proves non-consensual. The non-consensual aspect of the sexual intercourse relies 100% on her word.
| Leon wrote: |
| At the very least he is guilty of solicitation with a prostitute. |
If you can prove he paid her for sexual intercourse, or even offered to pay her, that is true. Can you? This whole presumption of guilt thing you guys have going on here really plays into Trevor's point quite well.
| Leon wrote: |
| It is very clear that he commited some kind of crime ... |
No, it's not, at least by the standards we are supposed to use to determine whether crimes are committed. The fact that so many people think this way is precisely why the current jury system makes me so uncomfortable. I wonder how many innocent men are sitting in prison right now because such attitudes, and I lament the fact that the number is almost assuredly above zero.
I implore you to reconsider, not because you have any direct bearing on this case, but because you may someday have bearing on a similar case, and because your views no doubt do influence other people in your life to at least some degree. |
I can not think of any conceivable way that this wasn't by force, or for money. It is possible, but of course its very hard to elimate all doubt in any criminal case. All the factors point towards one or the other. Why would this woman just walk into his room, a frankly unnattractive older man, and think damn I just have to have it? That is inconceviable to me. Also why would he, a powerful older married man, think it was normal for maid to want to have causual sex with him? This is also inconceivable to me. I can buy that it was consensqual prostitution, or that it was rape, but any other situation is just too unlikely and bizare. I'm really curious to hear his side of the story, because there is no way he can come out of this looking good. Either he says he's the type of man who propose the help for causual sex, or he thinks it is normal for the help to propose to him, and then has hard core intercourse with them, so hard that it bruises them. It doesn't add up, especially considering that he has been accused of similar things in the past, and is well known for being sleazy. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| I can not think of any conceivable way that this wasn't by force, or for money. |
Sometimes people simply have sex with one another. One night stands happen all the time, with both sides knowing it will never go any further.
| Leon wrote: |
| Either he says he's the type of man who propose the help for causual sex, or he thinks it is normal for the help to propose to him, and then has hard core intercourse with them, so hard that it bruises them. |
Given his cultural and economic background, I don't find this to be especially unbelievable. |
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