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Lucas
Joined: 11 Sep 2012
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akcrono
Joined: 11 Mar 2010
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 Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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"There was no immediate confirmation on what caused the apparent accident, which followed a terrorist attack in Boston. US Representative Bill Flores, whose district includes West, told CNN he doubted foul play was involved. 'I would not expect sabotage by any stretch of the imagination.,"
Let's not fly off the handle and call it a "bombing". "Explosion" seems more appropriate now. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:56 am Post subject: |
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| fertilizer is explosive as hell. really dangeous stuff. pretty sure this was a horrible accident |
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Lucas
Joined: 11 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:09 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| fertilizer is explosive as hell. really dangeous stuff. pretty sure this was a horrible accident |
esp when the fire fighters sprayed water on it!  |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:02 am Post subject: |
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If they sprayed water on it they were not properly trained. Did they do that?
Famous disaster in Texas was a ship load of fetilizer exploding in Galveston harbor I believe in th 1920's it just flattened a large part of the city. |
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Lucas
Joined: 11 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
If they sprayed water on it they were not properly trained. Did they do that?
Famous disaster in Texas was a ship load of fetilizer exploding in Galveston harbor I believe in th 1920's it just flattened a large part of the city. |
I remember reading reports that eye witnesses saw some/all of the fire men spraying water on to the fire.
I would like to think that the local fire force had some kind of 'action plan' for such an event, considering the HUGE risk places like these have and the small size of the town.....
I'd imagine the first page in big letters -DO NOT SPRAY WATER!
If there was no action plan in place, every high ranking fire man in the area needs to be fired! (pardon the pun!) 
Will be interesting to see if the fire men deny doing this or not����..
Maybe they were spraying water in a non fertilizer area? |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:51 am Post subject: |
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| They were volunteer firemen, so incompetence wouldn't be shocking. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:28 am Post subject: |
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| It was an older plant, in what had been an isolated area but the town had spread out around it. I have not read anything about water being sprayed on the fire but that is possible. these plants need to be well away from crowded areas. Real tradgedy. |
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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:10 am Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
| fertilizer is explosive as hell. really dangeous stuff. pretty sure this was a horrible accident |
Not all, but ammonium nitrate most certainly is. It's the primary ingredient in ANFO (ammonium nitrate/fuel oil), probably the most popular bulk explosive around.
After the Oklahoma City bombing, one of my classmates was telling us how easy it would have been for the terrorists to get large quantities of it. He used to work at a golf club and they'd get truckloads of it for the lawn. They'd also get ANFO to blow tree stumps up. He said the only difference between the ammonium nitrate used as fertilizer and in the explosive was the colour of the bags. ANFO was strictly controlled, the fertilizer wasn't. Luckily, things have changed since then. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:20 am Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| They were volunteer firemen, so incompetence wouldn't be shocking. |
Actually, it would. Volunteer firefighters in the US are trained. At least, in every city and county in which I lived, they were. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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Texas Fertilizer Plant Failed To Disclose Massive Amount Of Ammonium Nitrate
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The U.S. Department of Homeland Security requires fertilizer plants and depots to disclose amounts of ammonium nitrate, which can be used to make a bomb, above 400 lbs. The West, Texas plant, West Fertilizer, reportedly held 270 tons of the substance, 1,350 times that limit.
"This facility was known to have chemicals well above the threshold amount to be regulated under the Chemical Facility Anti-Terrorism Standards Act (CFATS), yet we understand that DHS did not even know the plant existed until it blew up," Rep. Bennie Thompson (D-MS) said in a statement, according to Reuters. |
Corporate, industrial terrorism. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
Texas Fertilizer Plant Failed To Disclose Massive Amount Of Ammonium Nitrate
| Quote: |
The U.S. Department of Homeland Security requires fertilizer plants and depots to disclose amounts of ammonium nitrate, which can be used to make a bomb, above 400 lbs. The West, Texas plant, West Fertilizer, reportedly held 270 tons of the substance, 1,350 times that limit.
"This facility was known to have chemicals well above the threshold amount to be regulated under the Chemical Facility Anti-Terrorism Standards Act (CFATS), yet we understand that DHS did not even know the plant existed until it blew up," Rep. Bennie Thompson (D-MS) said in a statement, according to Reuters. |
Corporate, industrial terrorism. |
Actually, if you read more complete versions of the article, they were in full compliance with all regulatory agencies at the local, state and federal levels EXCEPT the Department of Homeland Security.
Perhaps they would be better named the Department of Homeland Stupidity.
| NEW YORK (Reuters) wrote: |
The West Fertilizer facility was subject to other reporting, permitting and safety programs, spread across at least seven state and federal agencies, a patchwork of regulation that critics say makes it difficult to ensure thorough oversight.
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Apart from the DHS, the West Fertilizer site was subject to a hodgepodge of regulation by the EPA, OSHA, the U.S. Department of Transportation, the Texas Department of State Health Services, the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality and the Office of the Texas State Chemist. |
The system is broken, let's blame the terrorists for our own greed and stupidity and keep the system a patchwork of quick fixes rather than do it right.
Guess they have been taking lessons from Korean immigration or perhaps Kimmi has been taking lessons from them?
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
Texas Fertilizer Plant Failed To Disclose Massive Amount Of Ammonium Nitrate
| Quote: |
The U.S. Department of Homeland Security requires fertilizer plants and depots to disclose amounts of ammonium nitrate, which can be used to make a bomb, above 400 lbs. The West, Texas plant, West Fertilizer, reportedly held 270 tons of the substance, 1,350 times that limit.
"This facility was known to have chemicals well above the threshold amount to be regulated under the Chemical Facility Anti-Terrorism Standards Act (CFATS), yet we understand that DHS did not even know the plant existed until it blew up," Rep. Bennie Thompson (D-MS) said in a statement, according to Reuters. |
Corporate, industrial terrorism. |
Actually, if you read more complete versions of the article, they were in full compliance with all regulatory agencies at the local, state and federal levels EXCEPT the Department of Homeland Security. |
Only the Department of Homeland Security mattered as far as the ammonium nitrate is concerned.
Texas fertilizer plant flew under Dept. Homeland Security radar
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The company, however, had previously told Texas regulators that any accident at the facility would not be large enough to cause an explosion. A risk management plan filed by the company in 2011 had further failed to mention the presence of ammonium nitrate at the site, the LA Times reports.
While the EPA and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) are responsible for overseeing safety at such fertilizer plants, they do not regulate the handling or storage of ammonium nitrate.
That responsibility falls mostly under the DHS, which is tasked with aiding in the measurement of plant risks and devising relevant safety plans once the relevant information is passed on by the company. |
You are correct about one thing. The gov't scheme for regulating such plants is itself quite blameworthy.
| Quote: |
Under this scheme of self-reporting, fertilizer operations can be fined or shut down for failing to inform the DHS of significant volumes of hazardous chemicals. More than 4,000 sites are currently subject to the DHS program.
Although the DHS is empowered to carry out on the spot inspections at such facilities, budgetary constraints and a �small number� of field auditors have hindered the department�s monitoring regime, the source told Reuters. |
Lawmaker: Texas fertilizer plant �was willfully off the grid�
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Records from the Texas Department of State Health Services showed the facility stored 270 tons of ammonium nitrate as recently as last year. Homeland Security regulations require fertlizer plants to notify federal officials if they hold more than 400 pounds. But according to Reuters, neither state authorities nor officials at West Fertilizer shared their findings with DHS.
�The West Fertilizer Co. facility in West, Texas is not currently regulated under the CFATS program,� said DHS spokesperson Peter Boogaard.
Ammonium nitrate was the primary component used in Timothy McVeigh�s bombing attack on the federal courthouse in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma in 1995, prompting tighter federal regulations making it difficult to locate a seller. |
Governor Perry should be impeached.
Texas Fertilizer Explosion
See picture 14. Also picture 21. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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The plant was known about by everyone it seems except the DHS.
State level agencies were even aware of the storage of the ammonium nitrate.
Heaven forbid that the various government agencies would actually co-operate and communicate with each other instead of protecting their own fiefdoms and allowing one crisis after another to unfold.
Let the finger pointing and foolishness begin.
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| yep!! Pretty typical of bureaucrats. |
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