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HoldenOversoul
Joined: 04 Feb 2011
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 Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:49 am Post subject: Fired |
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Situation: I was notified verbally on June 13 that I would be fired. As a result, July 15 is my last day (my eighth month of teaching). I was not notified of the reason until a couple days ago; my director told me several students complained and did not like me. However, it is quite obvious that the overwhelming majority of students love me. The select few who have complained are the troublemakers - the kids that I yell at because their is no administrative support or discipline protocols. One of these kids literally told me in English during my first few months that he would get me fired by complaining. Either way, I still have not been given written notice of the firing or the reasons why. Also, the director has a sketchy history of firing teachers. I honestly think it's possible he fired me to avoid the 3,500,000 severance and plane ticket, especially because July is the easiest month to find new teachers. Do I have a case with the labor board? Either way, I strolling in on Monday morning to try to negotiate more money, but it would definitely make a difference if I knew whether or not I had a legit case. I know at the very least he was legally obligated to give me written notice 30 days prior, but I'm not sure what to do if the written notice that I will be given Friday will be retroactively dated (he told me he's giving me a bunch of papers Friday so I'm just assuming written notice is one of these documents).
Thoughts? Thanks |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:52 am Post subject: Re: Fired |
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| HoldenOversoul wrote: |
Situation: I was notified verbally on June 13 that I would be fired. As a result, July 15 is my last day (my eighth month of teaching). I was not notified of the reason until a couple days ago; my director told me several students complained and did not like me. However, it is quite obvious that the overwhelming majority of students love me. The select few who have complained are the troublemakers - the kids that I yell at because their is no administrative support or discipline protocols. One of these kids literally told me in English during my first few months that he would get me fired by complaining. Either way, I still have not been given written notice of the firing or the reasons why. Also, the director has a sketchy history of firing teachers. I honestly think it's possible he fired me to avoid the 3,500,000 severance and plane ticket, especially because July is the easiest month to find new teachers. Do I have a case with the labor board? Either way, I strolling in on Monday morning to try to negotiate more money, but it would definitely make a difference if I knew whether or not I had a legit case. I know at the very least he was legally obligated to give me written notice 30 days prior, but I'm not sure what to do if the written notice that I will be given Friday will be retroactively dated (he told me he's giving me a bunch of papers Friday so I'm just assuming written notice is one of these documents).
Thoughts? Thanks |
Provided you were given at least 30 days notice or pay in lieu of notice he has complied with labor law.
Find a new job.
From the labor standards act (updated June 2010)
Article 26 (Advance Notice of Dismissal)
An employer shall give an advance notice to a worker at
least thirty days before dismissal (including dismissal for
managerial reasons). If the notice is not given thirty days before
the dismissal, ordinary wages of more than thirty days shall be
paid to the worker, except in cases, prescribed by the Ordinance
of the Ministry of Employment and Labor, where it is impossible
to continue business because of natural disasters, armed conflicts,
or other unavoidable causes, or where a worker has caused considerable
difficulties to business, or damage to properties on purpose.
<Amended by Act No. 10339, Jun. 4, 2010>
Article 27 (Written Notification of Reasons for Dismissal)
(1) If an employer intends to dismiss a worker, the
employer shall notify the worker of reasons for dismissal and
the date of such dismissal in writing.
(2) The dismissal of a worker shall take effect only after the written
notification is given to the worker pursuant to paragraph (1).
Article 28 (Application for Remedy for Unfair Dismissal, and
Related Acts)
(1) If an employer dismisses a worker unfairly, the worker
may apply for remedy to the Labor Relations Commission.
(2) The application for remedy under paragraph (1) shall be
made within three months from the date on which the unfair
dismissal, and related acts took place.
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HoldenOversoul
Joined: 04 Feb 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:13 am Post subject: Re: Fired |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
| HoldenOversoul wrote: |
Situation: I was notified verbally on June 13 that I would be fired. As a result, July 15 is my last day (my eighth month of teaching). I was not notified of the reason until a couple days ago; my director told me several students complained and did not like me. However, it is quite obvious that the overwhelming majority of students love me. The select few who have complained are the troublemakers - the kids that I yell at because their is no administrative support or discipline protocols. One of these kids literally told me in English during my first few months that he would get me fired by complaining. Either way, I still have not been given written notice of the firing or the reasons why. Also, the director has a sketchy history of firing teachers. I honestly think it's possible he fired me to avoid the 3,500,000 severance and plane ticket, especially because July is the easiest month to find new teachers. Do I have a case with the labor board? Either way, I strolling in on Monday morning to try to negotiate more money, but it would definitely make a difference if I knew whether or not I had a legit case. I know at the very least he was legally obligated to give me written notice 30 days prior, but I'm not sure what to do if the written notice that I will be given Friday will be retroactively dated (he told me he's giving me a bunch of papers Friday so I'm just assuming written notice is one of these documents).
Thoughts? Thanks |
Provided you were given at least 30 days notice or pay in lieu of notice he has complied with labor law.
Find a new job.
From the labor standards act (updated June 2010)
Article 26 (Advance Notice of Dismissal)
An employer shall give an advance notice to a worker at
least thirty days before dismissal (including dismissal for
managerial reasons). If the notice is not given thirty days before
the dismissal, ordinary wages of more than thirty days shall be
paid to the worker, except in cases, prescribed by the Ordinance
of the Ministry of Employment and Labor, where it is impossible
to continue business because of natural disasters, armed conflicts,
or other unavoidable causes, or where a worker has caused considerable
difficulties to business, or damage to properties on purpose.
<Amended by Act No. 10339, Jun. 4, 2010>
Article 27 (Written Notification of Reasons for Dismissal)
(1) If an employer intends to dismiss a worker, the
employer shall notify the worker of reasons for dismissal and
the date of such dismissal in writing.
(2) The dismissal of a worker shall take effect only after the written
notification is given to the worker pursuant to paragraph (1).
Article 28 (Application for Remedy for Unfair Dismissal, and
Related Acts)
(1) If an employer dismisses a worker unfairly, the worker
may apply for remedy to the Labor Relations Commission.
(2) The application for remedy under paragraph (1) shall be
made within three months from the date on which the unfair
dismissal, and related acts took place.
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I'm familiar with this... but I still have not been given written notice and he only notified me of the reasons yesterday. My larger question is whether or not student complaints is grounds for gross negligence. |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:18 am Post subject: |
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For your next job get one at a public school. They don't typically listen to the trouble makers there, because the Korean teachers don't like the troublemakers either. Go for a public job through a recruiter that hires directly for the district the school is in. Don't waste any time with EPIK or GEPIK, or recruiters that hire through EPIK or GEPIK. Get your needed documents as quickly as possible, after 8 months you'll need a new Criminal Background Check from the FBI unless you already got a new one that is less than 6 months recent.
You lasted 8 months, in other asian countries people are routinely fired after a couple of weeks because the trouble makers don't like them, believe me 8 months is not as bad as you think.
I knew a guy who was a coordinater for English for about 3 years at a Thai private school and gave 3 months notice that he was leaving for another job. They fired him immediately. The mentality in Korea is far better than any other place you can work at in Asia except maybe Japan.
The trouble makers outside of Korea are even rottener and nobody has ever been able to do anything about it. I have lots of experience from seeing many other teachers talk about it in person.
This article is a pretty good example of catering to rich kids. This kid almost certainly went to a rich private school that you could have been stuck teaching at (although not a top tier international school, they would 't have anything to do with somebody like this).
http://www.khonkaen.ws/how-much-is-a-life-worth-in-thailand |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 5:24 am Post subject: Re: Fired |
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| HoldenOversoul wrote: |
| I'm familiar with this... but I still have not been given written notice and he only notified me of the reasons yesterday. My larger question is whether or not student complaints is grounds for gross negligence. |
They can terminate without notice IF, "where a worker has caused considerable difficulties to business" but he would have to be able to prove it at a labor tribunal if you contested it.
Provided you were given 30 days notice or pay in lieu they don't (legally) need grounds to terminate you. "An employer shall give an advance notice to a worker at least thirty days before dismissal (including dismissal for
managerial reasons)."
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HoldenOversoul
Joined: 04 Feb 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 5:46 am Post subject: Re: Fired |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
| HoldenOversoul wrote: |
| I'm familiar with this... but I still have not been given written notice and he only notified me of the reasons yesterday. My larger question is whether or not student complaints is grounds for gross negligence. |
They can terminate without notice IF, "where a worker has caused considerable difficulties to business" but he would have to be able to prove it at a labor tribunal if you contested it.
Provided you were given 30 days notice or pay in lieu they don't (legally) need grounds to terminate you. "An employer shall give an advance notice to a worker at least thirty days before dismissal (including dismissal for
managerial reasons)."
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I don't think he could legitimately prove that because I have only had one student quit while I have taught there. Also, the kid that quit did so in my first two months of teaching.
Another issue: Is Wooribank open on Sundays? He basically told me he's coming over to negotiate my final paycheck after he looks at the apartment and deducts internet, phone, and utility. However, I'm a little sketched out, particularly because he is shady and I've caught him in several lies over the past several months. He said that once we figure everything out he'll call his wife and she'll deposit the money into my account. I told him I won't move out until I can verify that I received the money that I believed he owes me. He e also owes me 200,000 krw in a security deposit which is not mentioned in the contract, and was illegally deducted without consulting me. The dude was getting into my shit really aggressively earlier today too when I asked him if I could keep my cell phone until Sunday. He said "No, because he needs to return it during business hours on Friday to get a precise cost for my monthly bill." Then, he started yelling at me in English and Korean and I basically just said, "I have to catch the bus. Cya." |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| Look for a new job. See if you can get it transferred. If not, new documents. Good luck. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:37 pm Post subject: Re: Fired |
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| HoldenOversoul wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
| HoldenOversoul wrote: |
| I'm familiar with this... but I still have not been given written notice and he only notified me of the reasons yesterday. My larger question is whether or not student complaints is grounds for gross negligence. |
They can terminate without notice IF, "where a worker has caused considerable difficulties to business" but he would have to be able to prove it at a labor tribunal if you contested it.
Provided you were given 30 days notice or pay in lieu they don't (legally) need grounds to terminate you. "An employer shall give an advance notice to a worker at least thirty days before dismissal (including dismissal for managerial reasons)."
. |
I don't think he could legitimately prove that because I have only had one student quit while I have taught there. Also, the kid that quit did so in my first two months of teaching.
Another issue: Is Wooribank open on Sundays? He basically told me he's coming over to negotiate my final paycheck after he looks at the apartment and deducts internet, phone, and utility. However, I'm a little sketched out, particularly because he is shady and I've caught him in several lies over the past several months. He said that once we figure everything out he'll call his wife and she'll deposit the money into my account. I told him I won't move out until I can verify that I received the money that I believed he owes me. He e also owes me 200,000 krw in a security deposit which is not mentioned in the contract, and was illegally deducted without consulting me. The dude was getting into my shit really aggressively earlier today too when I asked him if I could keep my cell phone until Sunday. He said "No, because he needs to return it during business hours on Friday to get a precise cost for my monthly bill." Then, he started yelling at me in English and Korean and I basically just said, "I have to catch the bus. Cya." |
It is not an issue and there is nothing to prove or disprove if you have your 30 days notice (quit thinking like an American).
Dismissed for managerial reasons could be as simple as, "He didn't like the color of your tie" 3 weeks ago. The "manager" has decided that your services are no longer required because he doesn't like the "cut of your jib" or "he found a cute blonde who is easier to sell to the adjumas" so you have your 30 days notice and you are gone. There is NO recourse at the labor board.
As to settling your accounts on a weekend - do-able. Internet or ATM banking makes it possible.
The only thing you need to worry about is getting your LOR so you can transfer to a new job without having to leave the country first to cancel your visa.
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:19 am Post subject: |
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Most firings come down to personality clashes. Chemistry.
Basically if you get on with your boss then you can get away with anything.
Conversely if he or she does not particularly like you.. then nothing you do will be good enough. |
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hagwonnewbie
Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Location: Asia
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| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| ditto on that ^ |
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