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DanseurVertical
Joined: 24 Nov 2010
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 Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:08 pm Post subject: working at a public school? - you're not alone |
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In reference to GEPIK / EPIK, well, maybe you are alone. . .
I mean that in the sense that maybe you're the only foreign English teacher at your school, and are given very little guidance or feedback from anyone at your school or district education office.
I am unsure of how much language barriers (even if they're not that difficult to break through) and funding have roles, but I repeatedly feel in the dark. In some ways that's OK, because by nature I'm very independent and willing to explore and learn on my own. But often I feel like I could so easily be informed of certain information, yet am not. And I don't take this personally, since for the most part I feel well liked or wanted as a teacher.
I say this in regard to little matters, like for example, that my classes are cancelled on a given day. 10:30 arrives, I've not taught, and upon asking, I'm informed that the students are now leaving school. Or, for example, that the 10-minute shuttle (maeul) bus to the subway station stops in front of my apartment every five minutes and is therefore considerably more convenient than a 25-minute walk and considerably cheaper than a ₩4,500 cab ride.
But also in regard to big matters, like resources for learning Korean. Neither the teachers in my department nor the coordinator at our district office has any knowledge beyond the most obvious option of classes at Yonsei University. Yonsei University is also 2 hours from me, meaning that it's not in fact an option. Eventually, I learned from another teacher about a local language exchange group.
I don't know how they are so oblivious to basic matters that would so significantly improve the quality of a foreign teacher's experience in Korea. It's not like they have never dealt with foreign teachers before, especially in the case of the district coordinator. My understanding of the district coordinator's role is murky at best, but if nothing else, is this not the principal duty? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:49 pm Post subject: Re: working at a public school? - you're not alone |
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| DanseurVertical wrote: |
In reference to GEPIK / EPIK, well, maybe you are alone. . .
(1) I mean that in the sense that maybe you're the only foreign English teacher at your school, and are given very little guidance or feedback from anyone at your school or district education office.
(2) I am unsure of how much language barriers (even if they're not that difficult to break through) and funding have roles, but I repeatedly feel in the dark. In some ways that's OK, because by nature I'm very independent and willing to explore and learn on my own. But often I feel like I could so easily be informed of certain information, yet am not. And I don't take this personally, since for the most part I feel well liked or wanted as a teacher.
(3) I say this in regard to little matters, like for example, that my classes are cancelled on a given day. 10:30 arrives, I've not taught, and upon asking, I'm informed that the students are now leaving school. Or, for example, that the 10-minute shuttle (maeul) bus to the subway station stops in front of my apartment every five minutes and is therefore considerably more convenient than a 25-minute walk and considerably cheaper than a ₩4,500 cab ride.
(4) But also in regard to big matters, like resources for learning Korean. Neither the teachers in my department nor the coordinator at our district office has any knowledge beyond the most obvious option of classes at Yonsei University. Yonsei University is also 2 hours from me, meaning that it's not in fact an option. Eventually, I learned from another teacher about a local language exchange group.
(5)I don't know how they are so oblivious to basic matters that would so significantly improve the quality of a foreign teacher's experience in Korea. It's not like they have never dealt with foreign teachers before, especially in the case of the district coordinator. My understanding of the district coordinator's role is murky at best, but if nothing else, is this not the principal duty? |
(numbers are mine)
I numbered your paragraphs for easy reference.
1. In the main, I feel that this lack of guidance is a good thing. What "guidance" we DO get usually falls squarely in the realm of SNIP.
2. It happens to us all. It can be annoying but it is what it is. Just as an aside though, learning some Korean cuts down on the number of times you need to be informed of certain issues...but I'm sure you know that.
3. Perhaps they thought you already knew or that someone else had told you (in regards to the students). Perhaps they thought that you preferred to walk or take a taxi, or were simply unaware (with regards to the shuttle bus). I mean do you spend a lot of time thinking about how they get to work? It's just something that they don't consider.
4. Well this is neither their job nor obligation. Your co-teachers have their own lives and probably devote less time to thinking about you and your needs as they do to selecting a brand of their favorite coffee.
5. It is neither the job of your co-teacher nor the DC to be aware of basic matters that would "significantly improve the quality of a foreign teacher's experience". For one this "quality"is subjective. What you regard as quality another foreign teacher might regard as not important at all. Plus too, I really doubt the DC has enough knowledge of all the places FT's are placed at to be aware of such things as the shuttle bus.
To the best of my knowledge the DC handles certain workplace issues.
Outside of the workplace...it's up to us.
Which brings us back to to 2. I find that simply waiting until say lunch time or when they are not busy...is the best time to phrase a question or a request. Unless they are complete jerks, they will provide some assistance. Of course I keep such questions/requests to an absolute minimum (no more than I absolutely need to) which they probably appreciate.
I'm not flaming you or anything like that...just replying. |
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DanseurVertical
Joined: 24 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| 5. It is neither the job of your co-teacher nor the DC to be aware of basic matters that would "significantly improve the quality of a foreign teacher's experience". For one this "quality"is subjective. What you regard as quality another foreign teacher might regard as not important at all. |
Access to a local subway station is possibly not important? Can even one teacher in Korea say this? If you argue that quality of life is simply subjective, then governments have no place in human society. Public education should not exist. People are equally happy with education as without education. People are equally happy being able to speak an area's only dominant language as they are without any second language skills whatsoever. There are no significant general tendencies at all. Human quality of life is just "subjective".
Putting the issue of "subjectivity" aside, if a school likes a NET, then they'll want to retain him / her. If it's the NET's first time teaching in Korea, then (in my case) GEPIK and one's school should make an effort to provide teachers with informational resources. I'm not claiming this is my "entitlement" and their "obligation" to me. It's instead a simple policy issue, of net benefit for Korean English education.
My claim is that taking some basic, calculated effort to give us more information that may enhance our lives is simply good policy. I worked with a public ESL program in North America. Do you really think all of our 80 or so students learned of it on their own or through other foreign friends? The two-and-a-half-day GEPIK orientation makes effort in this direction, but in practice, it's rather inadequate. A simple website filled with intelligently selected informational resources would help us significantly beyond this.
Also, don't think I intended to suggest this is the case of all GEPIK/ EPIK teachers and districts in Korea. I know of some districts that DO provide their teachers with social and informational resources beyond the minimum provided during the orientation.
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| Plus too, I really doubt the DC has enough knowledge of all the places FT's are placed at to be aware of such things as the shuttle bus. |
Well, of course the DC wouldn't have this knowledge. . . I didn't speak of the DC in reference to this. But a co-teacher who lives nextdoor?
I'm not "blaming" my co-teachers or even our district coordinator. Likely, none of my co-teachers was instructed in matters like this, and they have enough obligations apart from assisting NETs that going out of their way to consider a NET's life probably isn't feasible or desirable. Still, I think there's a legitimate policy problem, ranging from little matters like cancelled classes to more significant matters like networking among district NETs or informing us about Korean language resources. |
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Ramen
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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sounds like the op has dc like mine. spineless ass sucker and totally useless. 
i'm glad that i have two great korean assistants though. |
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ThingsComeAround
Joined: 07 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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Want the quick answer?
Because they don't really care if we like it here or not.
The long answer? 
Often times we aren't thought of as being "equal" to our neighbors. TUM may be (and usually is) in a different situation, however I've also experienced what you are going through and this is after three years in Korea- two different schools and two different areas. I feel some effort should be made by us locals to inform others of things we need- however there will always be some 'new policy' or bureaucrat that will change things and "forget" to inform those affected. 유토피아동, Korea doesn't exist for most foreigners.
I learn not to take small things offensively. Big things (like language learning) are pretty much pushed on you in China and Japan- it is organized and everywhere. Korean? Well- we have the website Talk to me in Korean (no school, no tutor, only a pamphlet from GEPIK on ten things to say in Korean). You would think that the organizers at GEPIK take "training" seriously enough to actually train us to develop classroom management skills but its money thrown away to make it look like the government is doing something.
What I'm trying to say is at least if we were viewed as equals the treatment we receive, the organization, and working conditions would be better than they are now. |
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Malislamusrex
Joined: 01 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:49 pm Post subject: Re: working at a public school? - you're not alone |
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If your co teacher makes a habit of not informing you about changes to the schedule.... tell her it is her job to tell you.
About the small things, let them go, I have been at my school at 1.5 years and am not really included in anything. As long as my co teacher sorts out my admin, that's all i really need.
| DanseurVertical wrote: |
In reference to GEPIK / EPIK, well, maybe you are alone. . .
I mean that in the sense that maybe you're the only foreign English teacher at your school, and are given very little guidance or feedback from anyone at your school or district education office.
I am unsure of how much language barriers (even if they're not that difficult to break through) and funding have roles, but I repeatedly feel in the dark. In some ways that's OK, because by nature I'm very independent and willing to explore and learn on my own. But often I feel like I could so easily be informed of certain information, yet am not. And I don't take this personally, since for the most part I feel well liked or wanted as a teacher.
I say this in regard to little matters, like for example, that my classes are cancelled on a given day. 10:30 arrives, I've not taught, and upon asking, I'm informed that the students are now leaving school. Or, for example, that the 10-minute shuttle (maeul) bus to the subway station stops in front of my apartment every five minutes and is therefore considerably more convenient than a 25-minute walk and considerably cheaper than a ₩4,500 cab ride.
But also in regard to big matters, like resources for learning Korean. Neither the teachers in my department nor the coordinator at our district office has any knowledge beyond the most obvious option of classes at Yonsei University. Yonsei University is also 2 hours from me, meaning that it's not in fact an option. Eventually, I learned from another teacher about a local language exchange group.
I don't know how they are so oblivious to basic matters that would so significantly improve the quality of a foreign teacher's experience in Korea. It's not like they have never dealt with foreign teachers before, especially in the case of the district coordinator. My understanding of the district coordinator's role is murky at best, but if nothing else, is this not the principal duty? |
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Malislamusrex
Joined: 01 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:49 pm Post subject: Re: working at a public school? - you're not alone |
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If your co teacher makes a habit of not informing you about changes to the schedule.... tell her it is her job to tell you.
About the small things, let them go, I have been at my school at 1.5 years and am not really included in anything. As long as my co teacher sorts out my admin, that's all i really need.
| DanseurVertical wrote: |
In reference to GEPIK / EPIK, well, maybe you are alone. . .
I mean that in the sense that maybe you're the only foreign English teacher at your school, and are given very little guidance or feedback from anyone at your school or district education office.
I am unsure of how much language barriers (even if they're not that difficult to break through) and funding have roles, but I repeatedly feel in the dark. In some ways that's OK, because by nature I'm very independent and willing to explore and learn on my own. But often I feel like I could so easily be informed of certain information, yet am not. And I don't take this personally, since for the most part I feel well liked or wanted as a teacher.
I say this in regard to little matters, like for example, that my classes are cancelled on a given day. 10:30 arrives, I've not taught, and upon asking, I'm informed that the students are now leaving school. Or, for example, that the 10-minute shuttle (maeul) bus to the subway station stops in front of my apartment every five minutes and is therefore considerably more convenient than a 25-minute walk and considerably cheaper than a ₩4,500 cab ride.
But also in regard to big matters, like resources for learning Korean. Neither the teachers in my department nor the coordinator at our district office has any knowledge beyond the most obvious option of classes at Yonsei University. Yonsei University is also 2 hours from me, meaning that it's not in fact an option. Eventually, I learned from another teacher about a local language exchange group.
I don't know how they are so oblivious to basic matters that would so significantly improve the quality of a foreign teacher's experience in Korea. It's not like they have never dealt with foreign teachers before, especially in the case of the district coordinator. My understanding of the district coordinator's role is murky at best, but if nothing else, is this not the principal duty? |
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DanseurVertical
Joined: 24 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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| ThingsComeAround wrote: |
| What I'm trying to say is at least if we were viewed as equals the treatment we receive, the organization, and working conditions would be better than they are now. |
I think you might be right about this. Part of it results, too, from the language barrier. For example, I'm not included in our school's Cool Messenger network. . .
But there seems to be some amount of organizational confusion extending beyond there. Example: One of my co-teachers, in her early 40s and able to speak better English than anyone else at the school but myself, also shows up for a class. We both puzzle, where are the students?
I don't know how much it results from the cultural conventions, but on the basis of what I've observed, policy and management (bureaucracy) in Korea seems particularly cumbersome, arbitrary, inefficient. There seems to be very little independent initiative among subordinates. If a subordinate is not told to do something, then he or she probably doesn't do it. And further, the demands of superiors may be arbitrary or simply stupid, consuming a lot of the time the subordinate could otherwise spend on more significant matters. Again, I could be wrong on how much impact this has, but it seems evident. |
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Ramen
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| DanseurVertical wrote: |
| ThingsComeAround wrote: |
| What I'm trying to say is at least if we were viewed as equals the treatment we receive, the organization, and working conditions would be better than they are now. |
I think you might be right about this. Part of it results, too, from the language barrier. For example, I'm not included in our school's Cool Messenger network. . .
But there seems to be some amount of organizational confusion extending beyond there. Example: One of my co-teachers, in her early 40s and able to speak better English than anyone else at the school but myself, also shows up for a class. We both puzzle, where are the students?
I don't know how much it results from the cultural conventions, but on the basis of what I've observed, policy and management (bureaucracy) in Korea seems particularly cumbersome, arbitrary, inefficient. There seems to be very little independent initiative among subordinates. If a subordinate is not told to do something, then he or she probably doesn't do it. And further, the demands of superiors may be arbitrary or simply stupid, consuming a lot of the time the subordinate could otherwise spend on more significant matters. Again, I could be wrong on how much impact this has, but it seems evident. |
organizational confusion and lack of initiative arise from laziness. and laziness arises from guaranteed employment until retirement. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 5:46 am Post subject: |
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| DanseurVertical wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| 5. It is neither the job of your co-teacher nor the DC to be aware of basic matters that would "significantly improve the quality of a foreign teacher's experience". For one this "quality"is subjective. What you regard as quality another foreign teacher might regard as not important at all. |
Access to a local subway station is possibly not important? Can even one teacher in Korea say this? . |
The nearest subway station to me is 40 mins away by bus. So yes I'd have to say that access to a subway station plays exactly a zero role in my day-to-day life. It's not a problem...if I need to go somewhere else buses are cheap and plentiful. |
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runthegauntlet
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Location: the southlands.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 5:58 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| DanseurVertical wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| 5. It is neither the job of your co-teacher nor the DC to be aware of basic matters that would "significantly improve the quality of a foreign teacher's experience". For one this "quality"is subjective. What you regard as quality another foreign teacher might regard as not important at all. |
Access to a local subway station is possibly not important? Can even one teacher in Korea say this? . |
The nearest subway station to me is 40 mins away by bus. So yes I'd have to say that access to a subway station plays exactly a zero role in my day-to-day life. It's not a problem...if I need to go somewhere else buses are cheap and plentiful. |
Me, too. Nearest subway to me is about two bus rides and 45+ minutes away. |
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DanseurVertical
Joined: 24 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:55 am Post subject: |
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| runthegauntlet wrote: |
Me, too. Nearest subway to me is about two bus rides and 45+ minutes away. |
You consider 45+ minutes by bus, with a transfer, to be "local"?
I'm not an idiot, I know not every teacher in Korea lives near a subway station. That wasn't my point. . . |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Access to a local subway station is possibly not important? Can even one teacher in Korea say this? |
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You consider 45+ minutes by bus, with a transfer, to be "local"?
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You need to decide where you want to live. Seoul and Beijing have great subway systems, but in Seoul I feel it is just a repeat from station to station. You don't really need to use the subway because 5 stations out will get you to the same things you could see 10-15 stations out.
Korea is a very small country, and they have a very good bus system. Unless you have an obsession (fetish) for business rush hour subway experiences, no, being near a subway station is not that important |
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DanseurVertical
Joined: 24 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| koreatimes wrote: |
| being near a subway station is not that important |
Sure, I agree for the most part. In my case, I am near a subway station, and being so is highly useful. To visit places in the valley where I live I almost always take a bus or else walk. But to visit Seoul or certain areas south of me, train is the way to go.
However, this matter has maybe 0.1% relevance to my original point. Oh well ^^ |
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ippy
Joined: 25 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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In truth, if youve got a bit of a pioneer spirit about you, you get on a bus and see where it goes. As for the language thing though, i have to agree.
If ONLY theyd devote one of those silly workshops to the korean teachers teaching YOU the korean language instead of you listening to one of your teachers tell you about the latest news story they found fascinating, itd go a long long way to not only acclimatizing us to korea, but also would give most of us the tools we need to handle the more simple things like bus timetables or schedule changes and the like on our own.
I did of course mention this to my coteach, but she is under the impression that im clearly trying to avoid doing my job, which is listening to her read a page or two from the korean times.
I guess what it all comes down to at the end is an acceptable turnover rate viz a viz available resources. Language lessons cost the poor coteacher babysitting you valuable time that could be better spent with the kids (or reading articles from the korea times at you), whilst bringing a teacher in would obviously cost the school money.
So although 1, 2, and 3 are pretty much trumped by 4, 4 is trumped by 5 which is in turn trumped by value for money and how many people theyre willing to accept as turnover. |
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