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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| wintermute wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
blah, blah, blah... I notice how you're dancing around the issue. You said that legalizing drugs would probably lead to a decrease in use. What do you have to back that up?
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If you go back a few posts, you'll find Fox addressed that issue using data from Portugal.
Does that affect your point of view?
And if I may say so, you appear to be 'playing the man, not the ball' a bit.
Relax! |
Look at the title of this thread.
The ball has already been put away... this is the after-game walk to the cars. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:25 am Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
Decriminalization would be the most important first step to take and I would also readily recommend it.
I do think that all out legalization would also be entirely positive (I literally can't think of a single drawback to it - although I would grant that regulation of advertising for highly addictive products would be reasonable, as with cigarettes in many countries these days). People saying it would result in increased use fail to account for the fact that illegal drugs are readily available regardless - they're just a whole lot stronger (and therefore more addictive) and all the money spent goes to gangsters.
You used to be able to buy laudanum over-the-counter, and they used to add a little bit of cocaine to Coca-cola and society didn't suffer much; now we have hard-core addicts huffing on extremely addictive crack, and the people who sell it filling up the prisons. I think the old way was preferable to what we have now. And I won't even get into all the psychotropic drugs being pushed onto children (somehow that's perfectly okay and acceptable, but most adults aren't legally allowed to buy marijuana)... |
Regardless, there's a rather large distinction between the two. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:39 am Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
Decriminalization would be the most important first step to take and I would also readily recommend it.
I do think that all out legalization would also be entirely positive (I literally can't think of a single drawback to it - although I would grant that regulation of advertising for highly addictive products would be reasonable, as with cigarettes in many countries these days). People saying it would result in increased use fail to account for the fact that illegal drugs are readily available regardless - they're just a whole lot stronger (and therefore more addictive) and all the money spent goes to gangsters.
You used to be able to buy laudanum over-the-counter, and they used to add a little bit of cocaine to Coca-cola and society didn't suffer much; now we have hard-core addicts huffing on extremely addictive crack, and the people who sell it filling up the prisons. I think the old way was preferable to what we have now. And I won't even get into all the psychotropic drugs being pushed onto children (somehow that's perfectly okay and acceptable, but most adults aren't legally allowed to buy marijuana)... |
Regardless, there's a rather large distinction between the two. |
Mostly just a matter of degree. Both would be overwhelmingly positive compared to what we have now. Bottom line is that drug and alcohol abuse is a social and a health issue but should absolutely not be a criminal one. |
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ghostrider
Joined: 27 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:18 am Post subject: |
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A man recently walked into a Nevada IHOP with an AK-47 assault rifle and started shooting people. An armed bystander was present but unable to stop the killer. So much for Visitorq's claims about packing heat making people safer.
"I wish I had shot at him when he was going in the IHOP," said Swagler, who owns Locals BBQ & Grill. "But when he came at me, when somebody is pointing an automatic weapon at you � you can't believe the firepower, the kind of rounds coming out of that weapon."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44410906/ns/us_news/t/sheriff-gunman-used-ak--ihop-shooting/ |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| ghostrider wrote: |
A man recently walked into a Nevada IHOP with an AK-47 assault rifle and started shooting people. An armed bystander was present but unable to stop the killer. So much for Visitorq's claims about packing heat making people safer.
"I wish I had shot at him when he was going in the IHOP," said Swagler, who owns Locals BBQ & Grill. "But when he came at me, when somebody is pointing an automatic weapon at you � you can't believe the firepower, the kind of rounds coming out of that weapon."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44410906/ns/us_news/t/sheriff-gunman-used-ak--ihop-shooting/ |
You revived this thread just to make this idiotic point?  So some random guy didn't have the nerve to shoot another, and you actually think you've proven something? Don't make me laugh.
I guess police shouldn't pack heat either, since that wouldn't "make people safer". Nah, they should just roll over and play dead instead. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:41 am Post subject: |
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But... but... Americans HAVE GUNZZZZZZ!!
They can defend themselves because of their righteous gun laws!!!
Surely this sort of thing cannot happen anymore. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:54 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
But... but... Americans HAVE GUNZZZZZZ!!
They can defend themselves because of their righteous gun laws!!!
Surely this sort of thing cannot happen anymore. |
Sarcasm or sheer idiocy? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:35 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
But... but... Americans HAVE GUNZZZZZZ!!
They can defend themselves because of their righteous gun laws!!!
Surely this sort of thing cannot happen anymore. |
Since we are no longer talking about Norway - I have already made clear that I do not believe their gun laws are the problem, although their criminal sentencing minimums need to be altered, and 2/3ds of Norwegians agree with me . . .
You should know that when Chicago instituted its handgun ban, gun crime immediately went up. Most of the gun deaths in America occur from gang warfare, which suggests that illegalizing firearms does nothing but disarm the lawful, while allowing the thugs their illegal armaments.
| Quote: |
| From 2004-2008, Chicago has averaged about 512 murders per year. About 80% of these murders are committed with an illegal firearm, and nearly half of are connected to gang-related disputes and activities. |
(Source p. 8-9)
You cannot compare American firearm deaths to Canadian and European firearm deaths without acknowledging the overwhelming reality: most American firearm deaths stem from illegal firearms. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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Kuros, did anyone seriously expect a gun ban in a CITY to be enforceable? A city?? Where is its borders? Check points? Anything?
Unless there are means in which an area can attempt to control the flow of arms, a gun ban would have limited effect. As a NATION, I think the US could handle its guns a lot better.
As to the post you quoted though... I'm sure you know it was mostly just a poke at a certain poster. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
Kuros, did anyone seriously expect a gun ban in a CITY to be enforceable? A city?? Where is its borders? Check points? Anything?
Unless there are means in which an area can attempt to control the flow of arms, a gun ban would have limited effect. As a NATION, I think the US could handle its guns a lot better. |
This is completely stupid, and that you actually seriously entertain the notion shows you know nothing about this subject. There are millions of guns available globally already, including in the US. Therefore it is literally impossible to disarm the criminals - you'd have to be a complete idiot to even try. Anytime the federal government tries to ban anything on a nation wide level, it fails miserably. WITHOUT EXCEPTION.
As for regular, law abiding people, what, would you have have federal agents running around trying to seize peoples' guns? Not only would that be completely against the constitution (ie. illegal), but many people would resist (rightfully so).
Basically everything you advocate is asinine beyond belief. It's laughable, really.
| Quote: |
| As to the post you quoted though... I'm sure you know it was mostly just a poke at a certain poster. |
Ah, so making a fool out of yourself is your way of trying 'ruffle my feathers'... I see. Keep it up. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
Kuros, did anyone seriously expect a gun ban in a CITY to be enforceable? A city?? Where is its borders? Check points? Anything?
Unless there are means in which an area can attempt to control the flow of arms, a gun ban would have limited effect. As a NATION, I think the US could handle its guns a lot better.
As to the post you quoted though... I'm sure you know it was mostly just a poke at a certain poster. |
Chicago had very similar problems too when the ENTIRE country decided to prohibit liquor.
Looking today at our failed war on drugs I can't help but think banning a popular product won't achieve the results you desire. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
Kuros, did anyone seriously expect a gun ban in a CITY to be enforceable? A city?? Where is its borders? Check points? Anything?
Unless there are means in which an area can attempt to control the flow of arms, a gun ban would have limited effect. As a NATION, I think the US could handle its guns a lot better. |
This is completely stupid, and that you actually seriously entertain the notion shows you know nothing about this subject. There are millions of guns available globally already, including in the US. Therefore it is literally impossible to disarm the criminals - you'd have to be a complete idiot to even try. Anytime the federal government tries to ban anything on a nation wide level, it fails miserably. WITHOUT EXCEPTION.
As for regular, law abiding people, what, would you have have federal agents running around trying to seize peoples' guns? Not only would that be completely against the constitution (ie. illegal), but many people would resist (rightfully so).
Basically everything you advocate is asinine beyond belief. It's laughable, really.
| Quote: |
| As to the post you quoted though... I'm sure you know it was mostly just a poke at a certain poster. |
Ah, so making a fool out of yourself is your way of trying 'ruffle my feathers'... I see. Keep it up. |
Ok then, genius - show me in my quote where I said the US should ban guns. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Unless there are means in which an area can attempt to control the flow of arms, a gun ban would have limited effect. As a NATION, I think the US could handle its guns a lot better. |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Ok then, genius - show me in my quote where I said the US should ban guns. |
Okay then genius, explain what the hell you meant, if not that? First you specifically mention a gun ban (in a thread where you spent pages railing against guns), then you make a laughably vague comment about the US "handling its guns better". Such a statement is nothing more than worthless tripe not even worth the digital space it takes up on my screen.
If you're so smart that you know better than Americans, then go ahead and lay out your original and brilliant plan for "handling guns better". Seeing as you're consistently too chicken to take an actual stand on anything, or to ever commit yourself to an argument you've formulated for yourself, I won't hold my breath... |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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My point about gun bans having limited effect was in relation to the example given of a city banning guns. Note that I then went on to say "As a NATION, I think the US could handle its guns a lot better.".
So I'll ask again, where did I say that the US should send federal agents into people's homes to seize their guns?
That was a straw man set up by YOU. YOU said I called for a gun ban in the US - I did not.
You've lied in other threads, that is nothing new.
So, are you trying to deceive people again, or are you going to admit that I didn't actually call for a gun ban in the US? |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
My point about gun bans having limited effect was in relation to the example given of a city banning guns. Note that I then went on to say "As a NATION, I think the US could handle its guns a lot better.".
So I'll ask again, where did I say that the US should send federal agents into people's homes to seize their guns?
That was a straw man set up by YOU. YOU said I called for a gun ban in the US - I did not.
You've lied in other threads, that is nothing new.
So, are you trying to deceive people again, or are you going to admit that I didn't actually call for a gun ban in the US? |
Ah, I see, so as usual you had no point and were simply engaging in verbal diarrhea. Rather than respond to it, I should just flush it down the toilet as it deserves. |
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