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capitalone
Joined: 06 Jul 2011
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 Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:00 pm Post subject: Wrongful Dismissal - Problems with Labor Board |
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Hi all,
My friend was recently fired from her job without cause and without having received 30 days written notice. She was told three or four days before being fired that she would no longer be able to work for 'x' institution. To make a very long story, very short, the details are as follows:
Her school was acquired by another businessman.
The owner of the new school informed his employees to tell my girlfriend she would be fired (no face to face meeting or written notification).
The first issue was that he would not give her a release letter (through his employees she was told 'you're fired, but he doesn't want to put it in writing or give you a release....but, don't come to work, there are no classes for you'. I know some people can exaggerate things on this board, but this is exactly how it went down.
Her old boss and new boss argued over who was responsible for signing her letter of release. Eventually, and after much arguing, her old boss signed the letter of release.
(It should be pointed out that for a about a week they tried to force her to sign a separate document stating that she would not pursue legal actions, etc.)
Up until that point, the labor board had been fairly helpful (suggesting the involvement of the police to act as witnesses, etc.).
She was informed by the Changwon labor board that she doesn't have a case for the 30 days pay because she found a job a few days after being fired from her position and that her signing the letter of release was a voluntary resignation.
Let me be clear, her choice was to stay at her former position. She was eight months into her contract and was on course for severance and bonus payment. There was no reason to choose another job.
Please, can anyone give me some insight as to how to proceed? I can't believe that her finding another job and basically being forced into signing a letter of release, all without notification, disqualifies her from her right to receive 30 days pay (if not more - She was also conveniently fired one week before her schedule vacation).
Cheers, |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: Wrongful Dismissal - Problems with Labor Board |
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| capitalone wrote: |
Hi all,
My friend was recently fired from her job without cause and without having received 30 days written notice. She was told three or four days before being fired that she would no longer be able to work for 'x' institution. To make a very long story, very short, the details are as follows:
Her school was acquired by another businessman.
The owner of the new school informed his employees to tell my girlfriend she would be fired (no face to face meeting or written notification).
The first issue was that he would not give her a release letter (through his employees she was told 'you're fired, but he doesn't want to put it in writing or give you a release....but, don't come to work, there are no classes for you'. I know some people can exaggerate things on this board, but this is exactly how it went down.
Her old boss and new boss argued over who was responsible for signing her letter of release. Eventually, and after much arguing, her old boss signed the letter of release.
(It should be pointed out that for a about a week they tried to force her to sign a separate document stating that she would not pursue legal actions, etc.)
Up until that point, the labor board had been fairly helpful (suggesting the involvement of the police to act as witnesses, etc.).
She was informed by the Changwon labor board that she doesn't have a case for the 30 days pay because she found a job a few days after being fired from her position and that her signing the letter of release was a voluntary resignation.
Let me be clear, her choice was to stay at her former position. She was eight months into her contract and was on course for severance and bonus payment. There was no reason to choose another job.
Please, can anyone give me some insight as to how to proceed? I can't believe that her finding another job and basically being forced into signing a letter of release, all without notification, disqualifies her from her right to receive 30 days pay (if not more - She was also conveniently fired one week before her schedule vacation).
Cheers, |
How does
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| "The first issue was that he would not give her a release letter" |
equate her
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| "basically being forced into signing a letter of release" |
?
See at the start of your post the issue seems to be among other things that they didn't want to give her a release letter. But now she was basically forced into signing one?
Anyway there's nothing much she can do if the labor board says she doesn't have a case. They would be the authoritative word on the subject as opposed to anyone on this board.
Sure she can argue that she didn't want to leave. But all the boss has to do is wave the signed LOR in the air and say "I've got a piece of paper here that says she wanted to leave the school...and here's her signature to prove it."
Sorry to hear about that...hakwon bosses are notorious for pulling these types of semi-legal (and illegal) shenanigans.
I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the school eventually gets 'sold' back to the old boss...the whole thing could have been a set-up to get rid of an expensive foreign teacher that he didn't like for some reason. |
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capitalone
Joined: 06 Jul 2011
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for the response. I see your point, maybe I didn't explain it well enough.
After informing my friend that she would be fired, the boss stated that he wouldn't fire her (at least in writing, due to the repercussions), but that he didn't want her to come to work. She had no choice but to sign a release letter so that she could look for other employment.
Does that make more sense?
The big issue though, really, is the 30 day written notification. Does it mean nothing? We have documents bearing the signature of her former manager which prove the school was trying to blackmail her before signing a letter of release (i.e., do not seek legal representation, etc.).
Thoughts? |
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capitalone
Joined: 06 Jul 2011
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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Just to be clear:
By 'forced to sign', I meant that she was being fired - she wasn't walking away for the job.
LOR not given until she signed other documents (she never did) stating she wouldn't come after them....eventually her old manager just gave in and signed the letter.
It's a really complicated situation and if I'm not explaining it well enough, let me know and I'l try again! |
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Carbon
Joined: 28 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: Wrongful Dismissal - Problems with Labor Board |
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| capitalone wrote: |
She was informed by the Changwon labor board that she doesn't have a case for the 30 days pay because she found a job a few days after being fired from her position and that her signing the letter of release was a voluntary resignation. |
This sounds right. She started to fight too late.
| capitalone wrote: |
Let me be clear, her choice was to stay at her former position. She was eight months into her contract and was on course for severance and bonus payment. There was no reason to choose another job.
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Not her choice. She was fired, signed a document (agreeing to the firing, essentially) then found another job. The end. She has no right to any severance or anything else because she signed the document. She is not "out in the cold" (she has another job lined up) and was let go well before the critical time for it to be a severance-saving firing. To the labor board, there is nothing nefarious going on. The employer has the right to fire her (which again, she agreed to), she has the right to get another job (which she did) and nobody is trying to stop anyone from doing these things.
Case closed. I hope she figures out that she needs to look at all options before signing any documents...that was her mistake. |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:31 am Post subject: |
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| Her old boss and new boss argued over who was responsible for signing her letter of release. |
What about notice of termination? First, a teacher resigns or a school terminates the contract. Either of these MUST be in writing (aside from stupid subsequent actions which might indicate otherwise and convince labor board to not help out).
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| It should be pointed out that for a about a week they tried to force her to sign a separate document stating that she would not pursue legal actions |
VAGUE. What legal action? For pay? For a release letter? What SPECIFICALLY did she sign saying she wouldn't do or would have signed saying she wouldn't do?
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| she doesn't have a case for the 30 days pay because she found a job a few days after being fired from her position and that her signing the letter of release was a voluntary resignation |
Yea, ok, so where is the problem? She found a new job and wants 30 days pay? Wouldn't that be like getting a severance earlier (which an employer is not required to do, you have to complete a full year).
The release letter just supports a timeline that she was released and I am assuming her passport and ARC card was updated. So, the case is getting stronger against her, from a no win scenario to an ABSOLUTE no win.
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| Let me be clear, her choice was to stay at her former position. |
Her contract does not force an employer to keep her. She found a new school, why is she trying to double dip here? She wants to get paid for a period of time twice?
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| There was no reason to choose another job. |
Maybe she wants to stay in Korea. Maybe she wants money. These are good reasons to find another job after a school fires them.
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| Please, can anyone give me some insight as to how to proceed? |
Tell your friend, "Congratulations on the new job, let's celebrate and have samgyeopsal or galbi." I would also like to recommend a jiggae (stew, soup).
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| She had no choice but to sign a release letter so that she could look for other employment. |
Right, that's how the process works. No work, no pay. Not in your country? It also means no visa. Thems are the rules of the ESL road.
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| By 'forced to sign', I meant that she was being fired - she wasn't walking away for the job. |
It was a release form, right? This has nothing to do with being fired or getting notice of termination. A release form is so WE can transfer to a new school without the new school paying for airfare to have us leave the country and re-enter.
The old hagwon should have paid for this, which means the new school would save on that cost.
In conclusion, she is living the normal ESL teacher life. I did something similar where I paid rent for April to look for a new school. I found a school within 2 weeks, and I felt I wasted half the money. However, if I hadn't found a school within 3 - 4 weeks, I would have paid for a second month.
Can't punish others for our success. Teach until you need to leave, and then find a new school. Move on. |
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neilsputnik
Joined: 11 Nov 2009
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:41 am Post subject: |
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Same BS happened to me. The school I was working for got bought out. New owner didn't want to know about foreigners. I got shafted. Not even a day as notice.
Anyways, I went to the Labor Board. They tried to tell me that I didn't have a case. There is some clause in the law about mergers and acquisitions that they tried to justify to me. They also tried to say that everything was okay because I had since found employment.
I refused to walk out of there because the above clause about mergers doesn't nullify the 30 days requirement. This was around 4 hours of back and forth arguments where we both (myself and case officer) said the same thing to each other again and again and again.
Bottom line: they try and kick you out of the office because it's easier. Tell your friend to refuse, and push the case forward.
I did, and now my former boss has an arrest warrant out for him, and our court date is approaching. Lovely.
BTW, I had a Korean gf who translated everything. I'd suggest getting someone who speaks Korean, it makes it a whole lot easier. |
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