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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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 Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:13 pm Post subject: 12 Year Old Aces TOEFL without going to Hagwon |
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http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2011/08/117_93578.html
This is just a regular kid who did great because she reads a lot. That's the key to success everyone! Have your kids read a lot!
Oh wait, she goes to Daewon International School. Ok, so going to international school will help you and probably not require you to go to a hagwon. So having the money to send your kid to an international school will help.
Wait, Daewon International School is for the most elite and richest kids in Korea? http://annals.yonsei.ac.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=715
Ok. So being one of the brightest and richest kids in Korea will help you.
Oh yeah, and have your mother constantly supporting your language learning. That will help.
Super rich, super smart, super supportive family, top of her class in the most elite school in Korea. But hey, she's just a regular kid. What a success story.... 
It is an amazing accomplishment and she should be proud. But the way this article was written, I feel is totally misleading.
The facts are obvious: literacy rich environment, rich, elite school, most elite student at most elite school, highly supportive family. That is a recipe for success. Not just reading a lot and working hard.
They try to say it wasn't hagwons that helped or living abroad. Well she doesn't need to if she goes to the most expensive school in the country....
Reading fairytales in English and watching TV shows and movies without subtitles will help. Sure. But I think coming from a very well off family and attending one of the top schools in the country helps quite a bit more.
Whereas this article about another student who accomplished a similar feat. http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2912790
It sas she is not your average student. In the first sentence. Thank you for clearing that up. Oh...they went to the same school too. |
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schwa
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Yap
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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I saw that article & what jumped out at me was where she said "...learning English is more like a fun hobby for me." Obviously a very bright & advantaged kid, but "hobby" in this context is a word I've heard used by many of the most accomplished english learners I've met.
No teacher can impart perfect english ability to a student but if we can put across to even a few that getting good at english can be a fun mission, our work is done. The rest is up to them.
Good on her. |
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rickpidero
Joined: 03 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| schwa wrote: |
I saw that article & what jumped out at me was where she said "...learning English is more like a fun hobby for me." Obviously a very bright & advantaged kid, but "hobby" in this context is a word I've heard used by many of the most accomplished english learners I've met.
No teacher can impart perfect english ability to a student but if we can put across to even a few that getting good at english can be a fun mission, our work is done. The rest is up to them.
Good on her. |
I noticed that they made a mistake in the quote: �I really enjoy reading and learning English is more like a fun hobby for me,�
I guess that is a bit of irony, considering the story.
Beyond that, I was wondering what her communication level was, like could she actually communicate with someone in English, or just pass tests. |
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fustiancorduroy
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:24 am Post subject: |
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| rickpidero wrote: |
| schwa wrote: |
I saw that article & what jumped out at me was where she said "...learning English is more like a fun hobby for me." Obviously a very bright & advantaged kid, but "hobby" in this context is a word I've heard used by many of the most accomplished english learners I've met.
No teacher can impart perfect english ability to a student but if we can put across to even a few that getting good at english can be a fun mission, our work is done. The rest is up to them.
Good on her. |
I noticed that they made a mistake in the quote: �I really enjoy reading and learning English is more like a fun hobby for me,�
I guess that is a bit of irony, considering the story.
Beyond that, I was wondering what her communication level was, like could she actually communicate with someone in English, or just pass tests. |
I have taught TOEFL for many years now. Currently, I teach at a TOEFL hagwon in Gangnam. Quite a few of our students go to the Daewon International Middle School. Most of them get 29/30 or 30/30 on the speaking and writing sections on the TOEFL. All of them have native- or near-native-level communicative competence in English. On the other hand, the students who have trouble answering simple questions in complete sentences... well, they tend to get rather lower speaking and writing scores, closer to 20/30.
In other words, getting a perfect speaking and writing score requires excellent English. Yes, you can learn key phrases and memorize a patterns to answer the questions on the TOEFL, but without the ability to speak fluently and write complicated sentences reasonably clearly, you cannot ace the TOEFL. It's just not possible. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:25 am Post subject: |
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| fustiancorduroy wrote: |
| rickpidero wrote: |
| schwa wrote: |
I saw that article & what jumped out at me was where she said "...learning English is more like a fun hobby for me." Obviously a very bright & advantaged kid, but "hobby" in this context is a word I've heard used by many of the most accomplished english learners I've met.
No teacher can impart perfect english ability to a student but if we can put across to even a few that getting good at english can be a fun mission, our work is done. The rest is up to them.
Good on her. |
I noticed that they made a mistake in the quote: �I really enjoy reading and learning English is more like a fun hobby for me,�
I guess that is a bit of irony, considering the story.
Beyond that, I was wondering what her communication level was, like could she actually communicate with someone in English, or just pass tests. |
I have taught TOEFL for many years now. Currently, I teach at a TOEFL hagwon in Gangnam. Quite a few of our students go to the Daewon International Middle School. Most of them get 29/30 or 30/30 on the speaking and writing sections on the TOEFL. All of them have native- or near-native-level communicative competence in English. On the other hand, the students who have trouble answering simple questions in complete sentences... well, they tend to get rather lower speaking and writing scores, closer to 20/30.
In other words, getting a perfect speaking and writing score requires excellent English. Yes, you can learn key phrases and memorize a patterns to answer the questions on the TOEFL, but without the ability to speak fluently and write complicated sentences reasonably clearly, you cannot ace the TOEFL. It's just not possible. |
Very well put and interesting. |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:56 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I noticed that they made a mistake in the quote: �I really enjoy reading and learning English is more like a fun hobby for me,� |
It's not a mistake on her part, but yours in reading.
1) I really enjoy reading / and learning English is more like a fun hobby for me (correct)
2) I really enjoy reading and learning English / is more like a fun hobby for me (incorrect)
It all depends on how you read it, but I am sure when she said it that she was aiming for 1. |
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rickpidero
Joined: 03 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:18 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| fustiancorduroy wrote: |
| rickpidero wrote: |
| schwa wrote: |
I saw that article & what jumped out at me was where she said "...learning English is more like a fun hobby for me." Obviously a very bright & advantaged kid, but "hobby" in this context is a word I've heard used by many of the most accomplished english learners I've met.
No teacher can impart perfect english ability to a student but if we can put across to even a few that getting good at english can be a fun mission, our work is done. The rest is up to them.
Good on her. |
I noticed that they made a mistake in the quote: �I really enjoy reading and learning English is more like a fun hobby for me,�
I guess that is a bit of irony, considering the story.
Beyond that, I was wondering what her communication level was, like could she actually communicate with someone in English, or just pass tests. |
I have taught TOEFL for many years now. Currently, I teach at a TOEFL hagwon in Gangnam. Quite a few of our students go to the Daewon International Middle School. Most of them get 29/30 or 30/30 on the speaking and writing sections on the TOEFL. All of them have native- or near-native-level communicative competence in English. On the other hand, the students who have trouble answering simple questions in complete sentences... well, they tend to get rather lower speaking and writing scores, closer to 20/30.
In other words, getting a perfect speaking and writing score requires excellent English. Yes, you can learn key phrases and memorize a patterns to answer the questions on the TOEFL, but without the ability to speak fluently and write complicated sentences reasonably clearly, you cannot ace the TOEFL. It's just not possible. |
Very well put and interesting. |
Agreed. Thanks for the info.
| koreatimes wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I noticed that they made a mistake in the quote: �I really enjoy reading and learning English is more like a fun hobby for me,� |
It's not a mistake on her part, but yours in reading.
1) I really enjoy reading / and learning English is more like a fun hobby for me (correct)
2) I really enjoy reading and learning English / is more like a fun hobby for me (incorrect)
It all depends on how you read it, but I am sure when she said it that she was aiming for 1. |
Actually, I was referring to the newspaper for making the mistake. They forgot a coma, I was thinking they should have done this: �I really enjoy reading and learning, English is more like a fun hobby for me,�
But, your #1 could be correct too. |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:18 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| �I really enjoy reading and learning, English is more like a fun hobby for me,� |
Wouldn't that be "I really enjoy reading and learning, AND English is more like a fun hobby for me,�?
Using "and" twice seems strange though. I think the intention was "learning English" not just "English". |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| koreatimes wrote: |
| Quote: |
| �I really enjoy reading and learning, English is more like a fun hobby for me,� |
Wouldn't that be "I really enjoy reading and learning, AND English is more like a fun hobby for me,�?
Using "and" twice seems strange though. I think the intention was "learning English" not just "English". |
If you were talking to someone I'm guessing you wouldn't notice the difference between the two if someone paused properly. Direct transcriptions of conversational English tend to be rather brutal. |
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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| koreatimes wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I noticed that they made a mistake in the quote: �I really enjoy reading and learning English is more like a fun hobby for me,� |
It's not a mistake on her part, but yours in reading.
1) I really enjoy reading / and learning English is more like a fun hobby for me (correct)
2) I really enjoy reading and learning English / is more like a fun hobby for me (incorrect)
It all depends on how you read it, but I am sure when she said it that she was aiming for 1. |
Wouldn't it have to be:
1) I really enjoy reading, / and learning English is more like a fun hobby for me.
There is no comma in the news paper article but there needs to be because it is two separate statements.
So it's still technically wrong. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:05 am Post subject: |
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jr...you are correct.
I really enjoy reading and learning, English is more like a fun hobby for me. - comma splice - incorrect.
I really enjoy reading, and learning English is more like a fun hobby for me. - correct. (compound sentence)
I really enjoy reading and learning. English is more like a fun hobby for me. - correct (2 simple sentences) |
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schwa
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Yap
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| Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:10 am Post subject: |
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�I really enjoy reading and learning English is more like a fun hobby for me.�
There is nothing wrong with that sentence. |
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jamesd
Joined: 15 Aug 2011
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| schwa wrote: |
�I really enjoy reading and learning English is more like a fun hobby for me.�
There is nothing wrong with that sentence. |
I agree. Comma is optional. |
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jacksonly
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
Location: United States
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| jamesd wrote: |
| schwa wrote: |
�I really enjoy reading and learning English is more like a fun hobby for me.�
There is nothing wrong with that sentence. |
I agree. Comma is optional. |
Comma is not optional if the article meant to say, "I really enjoy reading, and learning English is more like a fun hobby for me."
I really enjoy reading. = independent clause
Learning English is more like a fun hobby for me. = another independent clause
Therefore, you need to combine these two independent clauses with a comma and a coordinating conjunction, which in this case is an "and." |
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cwflaneur
Joined: 04 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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..
Last edited by cwflaneur on Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:20 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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