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warmachinenkorea
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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 Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| In the case of the foreign athletes groping the two girls, it's probably a case of two naive Korean girls thinking that hanging out with two male strangers is going to result in nothing but platonic stuff. |
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ThingsComeAround
Joined: 07 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| In the case of the foreign athletes groping the two girls, it's probably a case of two naive Korean girls thinking that hanging out with two male strangers is going to result in nothing but platonic stuff. |
Or possibly the girls thought the guys would buy them dinner and booze for a smile  |
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ZIFA
Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Location: Dici che il fiume..Trova la via al mare
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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Or possibly these athlete superstars are used to lots of automatic female attention where they come from.
They should be charged and punished. So should all the korean guys who get away with groping people on public transport, of course. |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| An official with the athlete village said of the incident that �we have asked that women who are approached by foreign athletes outside the athlete village approach them with caution, and regret that this ugly incident occurred. |
Makes foreign athletes sound like escaped prisoners. Of course you're safe if you meet a Korean athlete. But not a Korean coach http://asiancorrespondent.com/31337/short-track-skating-coach-accused-of-molesting-student/ |
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ZIFA
Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Location: Dici che il fiume..Trova la via al mare
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| warmachinenkorea wrote: |
| Beat down on a bus, a guy dies in a sauna, and now people are getting groped. When will the madness end? |
In the case of the bus guy, I am amazed that so many foreigners were condemning him. He took as much racist abuse as he could before reacting.
Sorry but in such situations there is a limit beyond which you have to defend yourself. Particularly if you are with a G/f- she will lose faith in you if you just allow yourself to get walked over.
Ajosshis have to learn not to harass foreigners who are with korean women. I don't care if the guy was 20 or 60, at some point you have to suffer the consequences of what you say. Ajosshi got what he deserved. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| ZIFA wrote: |
| warmachinenkorea wrote: |
| Beat down on a bus, a guy dies in a sauna, and now people are getting groped. When will the madness end? |
In the case of the bus guy, I am amazed that so many foreigners were condemning him. He took as much racist abuse as he could before reacting. |
Where are you getting this from? What exactly was said that was racist?
| Quote: |
| Sorry but in such situations there is a limit beyond which you have to defend yourself. Particularly if you are with a G/f- she will lose faith in you if you just allow yourself to get walked over. |
Oh, my - some old guy is rude to ya and you have to defend your honour by jumping on him and feeding him a few?
| Quote: |
| Ajosshis have to learn not to harass foreigners who are with korean women. I don't care if the guy was 20 or 60, at some point you have to suffer the consequences of what you say. Ajosshi got what he deserved. |
Really? What exactly did he say, and what is the punishment for saying those things?
Do you actually know the facts in the case? |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| ZIFA wrote: |
| warmachinenkorea wrote: |
| Beat down on a bus, a guy dies in a sauna, and now people are getting groped. When will the madness end? |
In the case of the bus guy, I am amazed that so many foreigners were condemning him. He took as much racist abuse as he could before reacting.
Sorry but in such situations there is a limit beyond which you have to defend yourself. Particularly if you are with a G/f- she will lose faith in you if you just allow yourself to get walked over.
Ajosshis have to learn not to harass foreigners who are with korean women. I don't care if the guy was 20 or 60, at some point you have to suffer the consequences of what you say. Ajosshi got what he deserved. |
I have watched the video at least 4 times. He isn't peacful. He talks a lot of trash and not like someone who is educated, and who you would want teaching your children. If you look at his body language, the way he talks, and the fact that he hit a much older guy repeatedly, it makes it hard for people to defend him. Look at how he raised his hand in a challenge way, his way of speaking. It tells you a lot about the man. It's not so much what the possibly racist Korean said, but rather the action of a teacher in a foreign land and hitting an old guy. Not smart. If you think someone is being racist against black people, and you know Korea has racism, is hitting a 60 year old going to improve race attitudes? Trying to solve problems using violence is the wrong message. If he was being attacked, fine.
You ignore that he punched the older man repeatedly, and he wasn't fighting back, and used his silver rings to hurt the man on purpose. You wonder why he has several silver rings on his hand? What kind of person is this guy, and thinking someone called you the n word doesn't excuse repeatedly punching a 60 year old. And the way the man raised his hand in a certain in a violent challenge is not from someone raised properly. I've seen this body language, type of swagger, behavior. It's not new to me. I've seen this so many times in the U.S. Let's not excuse this.
http://www.rjkoehler.com/2011/08/30/black-guy-on-bus-explains-what-set-him-off/Black guy on bus explains what set him off
by Robert Koehler on August 30, 2011
According to the Herald Gyeongje, �Mr. H,� the apparent assailant in this video, told police he felt like the victim was disparaging his race:
During police questioning, Mr. H said, �I felt offended when the man in the seat said �Shut up,� and while I couldn�t understand the Korean that followed, I felt he was disparaging black people.�
He also reportedly said he was wrong and wants to apologize.
Police have decided to recommend to prosecutors he be indicted without detention.
I still hope he�s deported. |
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ZIFA
Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Location: Dici che il fiume..Trova la via al mare
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Where are you getting this from? Do you actually know the facts in the case? |
From the in-depth investigation coducted by SBS. They interviewed witnesses on the bus and found that:
1. The black man who had beat up the older man was 100% provoked.
2. Prior to the fight, the black man was on the bus speaking (not on the phone), but to his Korean girlfriend. Apparently, the woman who was attempting to stop the fight.
3. The older man, seeing that the black man could speak in Korean, told said black man to shut up repeatedly. However, the black man simply ignored him and continued to talk to his girlfriend.
4. The older man then engaged in throwing pejoratives and other derogatory aspersions at the black man until the fight broke out.
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| What exactly was said that was racist? |
It was racist in the sense that ajosshi would not have insulted another Korean man in the same position. The black guy was singled out based on his race- or at least because he was foreign.
Surely you have experienced this kind of harrasment from Korean males at some point?
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Oh, my - some old guy is rude to ya and you have to defend your honour by jumping on him and feeding him a few? |
If he persists then yes. There is a line. Witnesses say that the black guy tried your advice ( patiently ignoring the ajosshi) but it was not working.
Are you telling me that you sit back and tolerate any amount of abuse... so long as the abuser is older??
The korean man was hardly frail, and in any case he inititiated the assault by lashing and kicking out. |
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ZIFA
Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Location: Dici che il fiume..Trova la via al mare
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| You ignore that he punched the older man repeatedly, and he wasn't fighting back, and used his silver rings to hurt the man on purpose. |
Wrong on all counts.
1) He punched the older man once. And even then failed to properly connect.
2) The Korean man initiated the assault by lashing out and kicking the black man. Prior to that their was no violence and the black guy looks to have been backing off slowly. so its basically a case of self-defence.
3) He had no "silver rings", "You see these rocks" refers to his fists or knuckles.
| Adventurer wrote: |
| Mr. H said, �I felt offended when the man in the seat said �Shut up,� and while I couldn�t understand the Korean that followed, I felt he was disparaging black people.� |
-but nevertheless the koreans on the bus confirmed that "the korean that followed" was a lot of abusive insults.
On an elemental, instinctive level, a womans biological imperative forces her to leave men that cannot or willl not protect themselves (or her) for whatever reason.
Korea has made it a crime for foreign men to stand up for themselves. They have emasculated them. In order to keep their women under their control. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:16 am Post subject: |
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What if the situation were reversed? What if it was a small statured older black man who told a big young Korean guy to shut up and maybe hurled a racist slur or something and then the Korean guy got in his face and started throwing out a bunch of hip-hop slang or saying crazy stuff in Korean and everything else went down the same, would you still hold the same opinion?
I'm guessing not.
If a young Korean guy did that, I wouldn't have much sympathy, regardless if the old man was in the wrong. The whole minute long rant about "these rocks" and the fact that the guy wasn't arguing any issue but instead trying to show "how hard" he was suggests that it was as I've said- two idiots crossed paths.
Plus, was the lady really his girlfriend? She looked like she was about 45....
Not to mention the guy was way too close for me to consider that it was the ajosshi that struck first...The dude was in the ajosshis face, not the other way around...
Seriously ZIFA, if some ajosshi got in your face that close and you kicked him away, would you say it was you that started the fight or he? Exactly.
The guy was challenging the ajosshi to a fight...how is he acting in self-defense?????? |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| ZIFA wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
| You ignore that he punched the older man repeatedly, and he wasn't fighting back, and used his silver rings to hurt the man on purpose. |
Wrong on all counts.
1) He punched the older man once. And even then failed to properly connect.
2) The Korean man initiated the assault by lashing out and kicking the black man. Prior to that their was no violence and the black guy looks to have been backing off slowly. so its basically a case of self-defence.
3) He had no "silver rings", "You see these rocks" refers to his fists or knuckles.
| Adventurer wrote: |
| Mr. H said, �I felt offended when the man in the seat said �Shut up,� and while I couldn�t understand the Korean that followed, I felt he was disparaging black people.� |
-but nevertheless the koreans on the bus confirmed that "the korean that followed" was a lot of abusive insults.
On an elemental, instinctive level, a womans biological imperative forces her to leave men that cannot or willl not protect themselves (or her) for whatever reason.
Korea has made it a crime for foreign men to stand up for themselves. They have emasculated them. In order to keep their women under their control. |
I suggest you watch the video very closely. I saw one with clear audio, and I saw him hit the old man several times, and the old man was sitting, not fighting. He also hit the woman and pulled her. I am not condoning the behavior of the 60 year old. I see in a video an older man not even responding to the African American towering over him, and he went at him more than once. The ajossi is not in the man's face, it's the other ay around as someone said. That's clear from the video, and he says "Do you see these rocks" more than once. Look, if he's sorry, and the ajossi accepts, then fine. That's the Korean way. Many of us just don't want people taking teaching gigs if they're going to respond the way he did. What threat is a 60 year old male to where you hit him more than once.
I think you're focusing on xenophobia, and ignoring the mannerisms of the man in the video and his body language. He was clearly taunting the older man, and going to show him and shut him up and put him in his place and did assault him more than once. I also heard his huge laugh, saw him raise his hand in the way you see guys back home showing they're going to show you. That was not smart, sorry. Even if this were the U.S., the guy is like 60, not 18. How does a huge guy who looks like he used to play football or something need to defend himself against a puny ajossi? |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| The guy was challenging the ajosshi to a fight...how is he acting in self-defense?????? |
He was clearly challenging an old man to a fight who was not responding. He went too far no matter what he thought was said to him in Korean. Some people have such a huge grudge against Koreans, which I understand due to xenophobia, that they will want to ignore the video footage. Despite the racism that definitely exists here, he clearly was out of line. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| ZIFA wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Where are you getting this from? Do you actually know the facts in the case? |
From the in-depth investigation coducted by SBS. They interviewed witnesses on the bus and found that:
1. The black man who had beat up the older man was 100% provoked.
2. Prior to the fight, the black man was on the bus speaking (not on the phone), but to his Korean girlfriend. Apparently, the woman who was attempting to stop the fight.
3. The older man, seeing that the black man could speak in Korean, told said black man to shut up repeatedly. However, the black man simply ignored him and continued to talk to his girlfriend.
4. The older man then engaged in throwing pejoratives and other derogatory aspersions at the black man until the fight broke out. |
1. What in the world is 100% provoked? Is that an scientific quantification? Did SBS test it in a lab?? Seriously??
2. So... he assaulted his GF too? Class act.
3. Like he should have done. Ignore the old guy if he's being a tool.
4. So he said some bad words... that's not grounds for an assault - even if true.
| Quote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| What exactly was said that was racist? |
It was racist in the sense that ajosshi would not have insulted another Korean man in the same position. The black guy was singled out based on his race- or at least because he was foreign.
Surely you have experienced this kind of harrasment from Korean males at some point? |
Yup. I've also seen Korean males do it to younger males and females. It's not necessarily racism.
| Quote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Oh, my - some old guy is rude to ya and you have to defend your honour by jumping on him and feeding him a few? |
If he persists then yes. There is a line. Witnesses say that the black guy tried your advice ( patiently ignoring the ajosshi) but it was not working.
Are you telling me that you sit back and tolerate any amount of abuse... so long as the abuser is older??
The korean man was hardly frail, and in any case he inititiated the assault by lashing and kicking out. |
Now you're blaming the old guy? Seriously??
You've ben defending this american in every thread you can find... and have finally arrived at "the old guy initiated the assault".
Wow.
we're watching two very different videos then.
BTW, do you trust an SBS report? |
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HijackedTw1light
Joined: 24 May 2010
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| ZIFA wrote: |
| On an elemental, instinctive level, a womans biological imperative forces her to leave men that cannot or willl not protect themselves (or her) for whatever reason. |
There may be a spot of truth to this--under certain conditions.
If every time I go for a walk with my girl in my neighborhood, one of my neighbors physically harasses and verbally abuses us, and I endure it because he intimidates me, then that probably would lower me in her eyes.
But if we walk by a five-year-old who shouts "weiguken" to his friends and points and says "Puk you," going over and beating the tar out of him will only make me look like a demented moron that she wants to distance herself from.
Clearly the old man posed zero physical threat to that guy. The ajosshi (haraboji?) would have a hard time hurting that dude with a baseball bat. To call it self-defense is far-fetched...to say the least.
| ZIFA wrote: |
| Korea has made it a crime for foreign men to stand up for themselves. They have emasculated them. In order to keep their women under their control. |
This is not just an issue for foreigners. Have you ever seen Korean men physically fight in public? It's rare. What you mostly see is two guys bumping into each other, yelling for twenty minutes, afraid to throw the first punch for legal (and cultural) reasons. The rules are stricter than they are in the States. Even intervening on behalf of a friend who is getting beat down unjustly has gotten people (Korean citizens I'm talking about) in serious trouble. |
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