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No_hite_pls
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Location: Don't hate me because I'm right
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 Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:36 pm Post subject: Tea Party Republicans want sick uninsured Americans to die |
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Nurses Say Letting Uninsured Patients Die Is No Laughing Matter Following Abhorrent Audience Cheers at CNN-Tea Party Debate
The nation�s largest representative of registered nurses today expressed revulsion at the cheering by some audience members in the CNN-Tea Party Republican debate Monday night at the prospect of letting a sick person die just because they do not have health insurance.
Prompting the outburst was a question from CNN�s Wolf Blitzer to Rep. Ron Paul about whether medical care should be provided to a hypothetical, uninsured 30-year-old man who lapsed into a coma, to which Paul responded, �that�s what freedom is all about, taking your own risks.� When Blitzer then asked, �Are you saying that society should just let him die?� a number of audience members erupted into loud cheers of �Yeah!� and laughter.
National Nurses United said the gruesome reaction from many in the audience is a reminder of the growing collapse of civil society in America, and the need for more humane policies. One such step would be to expand Medicare to cover all Americans so that no one has to be in danger of losing their life because they are uninsured.
Nor is it an academic question. Nearly 45,000 deaths in the U.S. every year are associated with lack of health insurance, according to a study this year by Harvard Medical School and Cambridge Health Alliance published by the American Journal of Public Health.
�It was stunning. My first reaction is how far have we degenerated as a society?� said NNU Co-President Jean Ross, RN who said she was watching the debate.
Ross called the reaction antithetical to the very essence of nursing. �Everything we do is geared toward preventing illness, and getting people well. If no one cares whether our patients get well, what are we doing advocating for them and fighting for them?�
A broader question, says NNU Executive Director RoseAnn DeMoro, is �one of national identity: Do we have � or even want � a country, a nation of common purpose and support � or just a collection of amoral individuals?�
NNU Co-President Deborah Burger, RN said the idea of �deciding whether someone deserves medical treatment based on their pocket book is abhorrent. Does that mean we should take someone off life support if they are in an accident just because they are uninsured? For nurses that would be unconscionable, and should not be part of any society I want to be in.�
�Healthcare should be a right for everyone, not just a privilege for the few, a point nurses would debate with anyone,� said Ross.
Ross said she was also disturbed by Paul�s comment about �freedom.�
�Abandoning people is not freedom,� said Ross, especially those without the resources to buy increasingly expensive private insurance. "That isn�t what I hear from my patients or their families.�
Strikingly, the audience cheers came just hours before the release Tuesday morning of new Census Bureau data showing the number of uninsured Americans this year rising by another 900,000 to 49.9 million people. Concurrently the Census Bureau reported a huge leap in the poverty rate, one reason so many people are without health coverage as insurance premiums alone have doubled in nine years.
�Most people feel that when someone is hurting or down on their luck, you take care of them,� said Ross. �Many of those I�ve cared for who are in their most dire circumstances have said to me that they feel fortunate because there are some who are worse off than they are. There is still a lot of empathy and sympathy for others in this country.�
�Most of us, other than the most wealthy, are just are one illness away from bankruptcy and lack of health insurance,� said DeMoro. �Nurses do not regard lack of wealth or personal misfortune as a handicap or an excuse to withdraw needed and appropriate medical care. Nor should that ever be acceptable in a just and humane society.�
National Nurses United, with 170,000 members, is the nation�s largest union and professional association of nurses. NNU is holding a national convention this week in San Francisco that will also feature a major rally on Thursday, September 15 of 1,000 RNs calling for a tax on Wall Street to raise revenue for Main Street reforms of jobs, healthcare for all, and freedom from hunger and homelessness. |
http://www.nationalnursesunited.org/press/entry/nurses-say-letting-uninsured-patients-die-is-no-laughing-matter/#.TnC-BnsnNJ8.reddit
It's sad how today society can be such filled with hate. Is this what our society has come to? We would rather stick with for profit medical care and let people die who cannot afford it and then applaud and cheer at the thought of someone dying because of this. I am ashamed of humanity.... |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| We would rather stick with for profit medical care |
Who says that medical care needs to be either for profit, or run by the state. Many of the world's greatest medical institutions were created by private individuals, or religious groups to help those in need. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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This is such crap - watch the whole response he gives (not the short clip, deliberately edited to cut him off right at the moment the heckler calls out). The attention the self-righteous Left is giving to this is total, stinking propaganda.
Ron Paul explains that when he was a doctor, they never turned people away. Doctors do pro bono work, just like other professionals. Worst case is you treat the person and send them a bill (expecting that a certain number will not pay it back) - you don't just leave them there to die  That the left is even using this as a talking point is asinine.
Here's the full response:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4Am2bWQRNw&feature=related |
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Ineverlie&I'malwaysri
Joined: 09 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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So one or two idiots in the audience yelled, "Yeah!" How do you even know they are Tea Party Republicans, and even if they are, how can you say they are representative?
Anyway, Ron Paul's full answer (thanks VQ) is just so logical, compassionate, and full of common sense and experience that to disagree with him can only mean one is not thinking for oneself. |
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smee18
Joined: 24 Mar 2009
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| To the OP: Don't be ashamed of humanity, be ashamed of America, the only country in the developed world to not have universal healthcare. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| smee18 wrote: |
| To the OP: Don't be ashamed of humanity, be ashamed of America, the only country in the developed world to not have universal healthcare. |
And yet the country with the best medical technology and the best hospitals in the world. As if America needs to emulate the rest of the developed world (like Europe, which is falling apart) - the more we do that, the more bankrupt we become, and the more money is wasted on government (money which could be better spent on things, like making our lives better).
Cut government, deregulate, get rid of licensing, stop kowtowing to insurance industry lobbyists, and health care will be affordable for all. Forcing people to pay into yet another ruinously expensive government monopoly scheme (written by the insurance industry) is a horrible idea and completely irrational. |
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shifter2009
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Location: wisconsin
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
This is such crap - watch the whole response he gives (not the short clip, deliberately edited to cut him off right at the moment the heckler calls out). The attention the self-righteous Left is giving to this is total, stinking propaganda.
Ron Paul explains that when he was a doctor, they never turned people away. Doctors do pro bono work, just like other professionals. Worst case is you treat the person and send them a bill (expecting that a certain number will not pay it back) - you don't just leave them there to die That the left is even using this as a talking point is asinine.
Here's the full response:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4Am2bWQRNw&feature=related |
Where was Dr. Paul for this guy?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2037330/Ron-Pauls-campaign-manager-died-pneumonia-afford-health-insurance.html
No insurance and no pro bono work for him??? |
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recessiontime
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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In a world where there is separation of government and insurance companies there is competition which means lowered insurance for your medical costs. You'd actually pay less for the same things you can't afford to today because of this monopoly/oligopoly maintained by the government.
The majority of the people reacting to Ron Paul don't have a clue what they are talking about when it comes to economics which is why the country is doomed to pick your status quo candidate with more of the same tripe that won't change anything. Ron Paul is old and his expiry date is coming, after him I doubt anybody will be courageous enough to lead the American public to salvation, perhaps they deserved to be ruined. |
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No_hite_pls
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Location: Don't hate me because I'm right
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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| shifter2009 wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
This is such crap - watch the whole response he gives (not the short clip, deliberately edited to cut him off right at the moment the heckler calls out). The attention the self-righteous Left is giving to this is total, stinking propaganda.
Ron Paul explains that when he was a doctor, they never turned people away. Doctors do pro bono work, just like other professionals. Worst case is you treat the person and send them a bill (expecting that a certain number will not pay it back) - you don't just leave them there to die That the left is even using this as a talking point is asinine.
Here's the full response:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4Am2bWQRNw&feature=related |
Where was Dr. Paul for this guy?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2037330/Ron-Pauls-campaign-manager-died-pneumonia-afford-health-insurance.html
No insurance and no pro bono work for him??? |
Wow. Ron Pauls own campaign manager (2008) died from lack of affordable health care. Free market magic! |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:13 am Post subject: |
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What a piece of trash article. Such blatant propaganda is barely worth dignifying with a response, but here's one (from the comments section):
"He was in a hospital. He had pneumonia but he was in a hospital ... where is any evidence he died because he couldn't afford premiums?"
Well, where is your evidence??
I would also point out that a cost of $400,000 to treat pneumonia is disgraceful. You can thank government enforced monopolies of HMOs and pharmaceutical companies for this. The health care system needs to be liberated so that competition in the market will bring costs down. That is the only real solution. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:26 am Post subject: |
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| recessiontime wrote: |
| In a world where there is separation of government and insurance companies there is competition which means lowered insurance for your medical costs. You'd actually pay less for the same things you can't afford to today because of this monopoly/oligopoly maintained by the government. |
Exactly.
| Quote: |
| The majority of the people reacting to Ron Paul don't have a clue what they are talking about when it comes to economics which is why the country is doomed to pick your status quo candidate with more of the same tripe that won't change anything. Ron Paul is old and his expiry date is coming, after him I doubt anybody will be courageous enough to lead the American public to salvation, perhaps they deserved to be ruined. |
Many people (ie. those who plug themselves into the mainstream media each day) just gobble up whatever crap is plopped onto their plates. The level of irrationality is virtually without limits. Tell them there's WMDs in Iraq with no proof, they believe it. Tell them the economy is doing great (despite all signs showing it is a depression) and they'll believe it. Tell them aliens will invade the earth if we don't pay Al Gore money to make the ManBearPig go away - and you'll probably get a Nobel Prize thrown your way.
As for politicians, it's very simple: make promises you can't keep, telling people they're going to get something something for free (even though nothing is free), and they'll treat you like some kind of hero and run magazine covers comparing you to Jesus. Tell them about reality, and they'll rail against you like you're the devil incarnate. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
What a piece of trash article. Such blatant propaganda is barely worth dignifying with a response, but here's one (from the comments section):
"He was in a hospital. He had pneumonia but he was in a hospital ... where is any evidence he died because he couldn't afford premiums?"
Well, where is your evidence??
I would also point out that a cost of $400,000 to treat pneumonia is disgraceful. You can thank government enforced monopolies of HMOs and pharmaceutical companies for this. The health care system needs to be liberated so that competition in the market will bring costs down. That is the only real solution. |
He was given medical care. He died because he was sick.
You see, in today's society, people are in search of magical solutions for their problems. So, they love superheros and Harry Potter, and they seek the same sort of promises from their politicians. Most of the general public is willing and eager to be lied to by the evil fascist-socialists who promise them miracles and magical solutions.
Then when those evil programs not only fail to deliver as promised, but cause poverty, pollution, unemployment, pollution and war, the same evil fascist-socialist politicians blame others, whose policies and advice were correct and not followed, and then make more promises, and the public buys the lies again.
This is why a largely fascist Democratic party and a largely communist Republican party can continue to dominate society, even though both parties are located in the bottom quadrant, the authoritarian to totalitarian corner of the political map. Who wants to face harsh reality when the lies and promises are so sweet
Of course, it has been well reported that democracy can be expected to bring about its own demise by this very process.
Government is the problem.
Liberty is the answer. |
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johnnyenglishteacher2
Joined: 03 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
This is such crap - watch the whole response he gives (not the short clip, deliberately edited to cut him off right at the moment the heckler calls out). The attention the self-righteous Left is giving to this is total, stinking propaganda.
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The article isn't about Ron Paul but about the response of certain members of the audience. |
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johnnyenglishteacher2
Joined: 03 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| Government is the problem. |
Just out of interest, of the current responsibilities of government, which ones would you keep, and which ones would you scrap? |
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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I also agree that the accusation is false and misleading. Just as the right that said Obama's health care would have death panels deciding the fate of people. Its hyperbole disquised as truth.
That said, the health care industry and situation for a significant percentage of Americans is NOT good. Many people are one major medical set back from bankruptcy.
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-06-05/health/bankruptcy.medical.bills_1_medical-bills-bankruptcies-health-insurance?_s=PM:HEALTH
Bankruptcies due to medical bills increased by nearly 50 percent in a six-year period, from 46 percent in 2001 to 62 percent in 2007, and most of those who filed for bankruptcy were middle-class, well-educated homeowners, according to a report that will be published in the August issue of The American Journal of Medicine.
Many companies provide very inadequate health care coverage. The main problem is that our health care is controlled by groups that are self serving. HMOs, Big Pharma, the AMA (American Medical Association), insurance companies have bought the politicians. The AMA for example in their history had originally opposed just about meaningful or progressive change such as HMOs, Medicare, etc. They arbitrarily limit the number of doctors to keep salaries higher.
The present system does NOT work well enough for too many Americans. Many people hold up european nationalized health care as what would happen if we abondan our present system. The reality is the present system is broken. I am not saying we should emulate UK's NHS but we should change the system we have not because it does not work.
The first step is to keep the aforementioned powers out of the political debate. They now control it. No meaningful legislation can be passed because the powers in the medical industry have the government working for them. |
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