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vchampea
Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Location: USA
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 Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:47 pm Post subject: How much lesson planning for public schools? |
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I just had an interview with Korvia. Apparently the interview went well. I've been accepted into the program. But I still need to have an interview with somebody from EPIK in a couple weeks.
"I love your great voice and laughs. =)"
-direct quote from the recruiter's email. LOL
There were a couple things that concerned me. Maybe some people who have worked both hagwons and public schools could enlighten me. I asked how much teaching material I will be provided with. This is particularly important to me because the last school I worked at I had to create 12 semester curricula in 2 weeks. It was absolutely insane and I don't want to have to deal with anything like that ever again. She said the students will have a textbook (that's good!) I will have to do some lesson planning on my own. She said I will have to bring my laptop so I can get stuff from the internet to make my lesson plans. It kind of bothered me that I'm expected to already have a laptop. I do, but the expectation is what bothered me.
So my question about public schools is, even though I would only have to work 20-22 hours per week, will I be spending a tremendous amount of time lesson planning? That would bother me a lot. I understand they are hiring me as an English teacher and lesson planning is part of my job but I'm not a program developer. I expect the school to already have a program and at least have the curriculum from the previous year. What can I expect from most public schools? Will I need to create entire semester curricula and weekly lesson plans? Or will I have some guidance with this part of my job? How many classes will I be teaching? It's 20-22 hours per week but how many English classes will I be planning for? For example, I could be teaching English level 1 to 3 different groups of students, and then English level 2 to 3 different groups of students. So I'm really only planning for 2 difference classes: English level 1 and 2. That makes the job pretty easy. But if I have to teach many levels of English to different groups of students lesson planning can get quite intensive. What can I expect at the public schools in Korea? |
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hubbahubba
Joined: 31 May 2008
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Ah, I see you want to be a teacher, but you don't want to work like one. Good luck with it. I know many folks here who have just that attitude. You should fit right in. Sorry, I know that was harsh, but come on... |
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Warhammer820
Joined: 03 Jun 2011
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Congrats!!!! I was hoping that yu would get an offer soon. |
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mmstyle
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: wherever
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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HubbaHubba is being very harsh.
The answer is: it depends. Sorry, it won't answer your question. I am with SMOE, I do a TON of lesson planning because I am in MS and my CTs won't actually co-teach or co-plan. They show up, and they won't share materials.
OTOH, my spouse works in elementary, and he co-plans with his 2 CTs each week. He has more teaching hours, but spends a lot less time planning because they use the curriculum and supplement it.
It's going to depend on whether you have a CT that is willing to actually coteach, share materials, or even do more than sit in the back of your class. It will also depend on things like whether you have a CT who can understand you when you speak to him/her (this is extreme, but one of my CTs only understands about 40% of what I say to him, and doesn't know how to assist me in class until we have taught the lesson once).
All this being said, I could get away with less lesson planning, but I take my job seriously. This semester I got overwhelmed with some of the new changes, which seem to be hitting at the same time as the disciplinary crap is hitting the proverbial fan. The newest KT when the new semester started and she realized how much more work she was going to have to pick up (I think the other CTs dumped a lot on her, but I'll never really know). |
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vchampea
Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| hubbahubba wrote: |
| Ah, I see you want to be a teacher, but you don't want to work like one. Good luck with it. I know many folks here who have just that attitude. You should fit right in. Sorry, I know that was harsh, but come on... |
If you knew what I've been through with my last job you wouldn't say that. I can work like a teacher but I have my limits. I'm not superman Like I said, for my last job I had to create 12 curricula in 2 weeks. I was not given the previous curricula for any of the classes, just the books that the students would be using (for one of my classes, not even a book!). I worked during the day and the evenings (including weekends!) for the 2 weeks before school started. Then on the first day of school the director realized they didn't have enough books for the students so they had to change half the textbooks. Half the lesson plans that I made became worthless because I couldn't use the textbook that I thought I was going to use. Once school started not only was I teaching most of the day, I was awake very late at night trying to finish my curricula and lesson plans for all my classes. I was exhausted every day. Then all the other foreign teachers at the school bailed and I was given as much overtime as they could fit in my schedule, which left me with only evenings to do my lesson planning. Needless, to say, I quit. I later found out that almost every teacher that comes to that school has broken their contract early because of the school's absolutely terrible administration and organization.
I hope you can see why I am cautious about this. School administrators cannot expect recent college graduates to be program developers for their English department, especially if the college graduate has no background in education. If they want program developers they need to hire somebody who has experience in that area. I'm not asking for much. I just want to know, are most schools going to have textbooks? Will they give me the curriculum from the previous year? And exactly how many classes will I be planning for every week? If I'm given the textbook and the curriculum from the previous year I'm sure I can make lesson plans for at least 3 different classes. Is that really asking for too much? I think that's reasonable.
CT's means co-teacher, correct? I'm not sure what KT stands for. |
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warmachinenkorea
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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Depending on your school and co-workers you could make 3-9 lessons a week. I teach at 3 schools and with supplementary classes I end up making 9 lessons a week. None of my teachers plan with me and never have in my 3 years here.
I've made lessons numereous times just to be told their not needed. But again this can depend on your school.
99% sure you'll be given a text book. But you'll more than likely be asked to teach the "speaking part" of the lesson. The books are terrible and alot of teachers make their own games and activites with a lesson.
And if you're looking for organization Korea might not be the place for you. |
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Tallgesse
Joined: 06 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| warmachinenkorea wrote: |
Depending on your school and co-workers you could make 3-9 lessons a week. I teach at 3 schools and with supplementary classes I end up making 9 lessons a week. None of my teachers plan with me and never have in my 3 years here.
I've made lessons numereous times just to be told their not needed. But again this can depend on your school.
99% sure you'll be given a text book. But you'll more than likely be asked to teach the "speaking part" of the lesson. The books are terrible and alot of teachers make their own games and activites with a lesson.
And if you're looking for organization Korea might not be the place for you. |
I assume you just put the lessons you don't use (along with the ones you do use) in a portfolio and save them for latter. Thats the thing about teaching in general OP - the longer you do it the easier that part gets as you start to discover what works and can recycle previous lesson plans, the more you do it the larger an arsenal of quality lesson designs you'll have. |
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Tallgesse
Joined: 06 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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...
Last edited by Tallgesse on Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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vchampea
Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| warmachinenkorea wrote: |
Depending on your school and co-workers you could make 3-9 lessons a week. I teach at 3 schools and with supplementary classes I end up making 9 lessons a week. None of my teachers plan with me and never have in my 3 years here.
I've made lessons numereous times just to be told their not needed. But again this can depend on your school.
99% sure you'll be given a text book. But you'll more than likely be asked to teach the "speaking part" of the lesson. The books are terrible and alot of teachers make their own games and activites with a lesson.
And if you're looking for organization Korea might not be the place for you. |
3-9 lessons per week? Can you break that down? For example, let's say you have 9 lessons to plan for every week. Maybe you have English level 1, which you teach 3 times per week (3 lessons), English level 2 3 times per week, and English level 3 3 times per week. Something like that?
At the previous school I worked at I had no repeated classes because the student enrollment was so low. I taught each of my classes once to one group of students. So I was making 24 lesson plans per week. That is something I cannot do. Would I ever run into this situation in public schools in Korea?
Making a few lesson plans that you end up not needing is no big deal. But when you spend hours poring over books and making an entire semester plan, only to find out later that the book you spent so much time reading (and the lesson plans you've worked so hard on) won't even be used really hurts
I expect bad organization. I don't mind it to a certain degree. Ending up in the wrong classrooms, classes cancelled unexpectedly, etc. That's no problem. The problems I mention above are the things that drive me insane. I am sure that there is no other country in the world that could beat Thailand for lack of organization, and I'm sure all teachers in Thailand would agree with that. |
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Redcap
Joined: 03 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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CT= Co-teacher
KT= Korean Teacher
I agree with mmstyle. There's no definitive answer as to how much lesson planning awaits you. It all comes down to your particular situation. However, I think it's safe to say that you will not be overwhelmed with lesson planning.
This post is predicated on the assumption that you're going to be placed into an elementary school. There could be several factors that could influence the amount of lesson planning required of you.
Generally speaking, if you are teaching the regular curriculum, there will be an accompanying textbook for the middle/upper grades. If your Korean co-teacher religiously follows the text and curriculum ( most do), then you may only be required to plan an activity that is related to the lesson. Alternatively, your CT may restrict your participation to repeating words or sentences in English from the textbook, in which case your biggest challenge will be to remain conscious.
Your school may make you teach after school classes ( don't worry, these classes will finish up by the end of your regular work schedule ie. 4:30 or so). These classes are supposed to be an opportunity for the kids to augment their regular English classes. In these classes you may be responsible for planning the entire lesson. Again, this depends on your particular circumstance. Your principal may already have an idea for the format, or leave it entirely up to you.
As mmstle alluded to, your Korean co-teachers may or may not take an active role in your classes. Some are really helpful and have bought into the concept of team teaching, while others will doze off in the back, or go AWOL for the duration of your class.
Good luck. |
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warmachinenkorea
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| vchampea wrote: |
| warmachinenkorea wrote: |
Depending on your school and co-workers you could make 3-9 lessons a week. I teach at 3 schools and with supplementary classes I end up making 9 lessons a week. None of my teachers plan with me and never have in my 3 years here.
I've made lessons numereous times just to be told their not needed. But again this can depend on your school.
99% sure you'll be given a text book. But you'll more than likely be asked to teach the "speaking part" of the lesson. The books are terrible and alot of teachers make their own games and activites with a lesson.
And if you're looking for organization Korea might not be the place for you. |
3-9 lessons per week? Can you break that down? For example, let's say you have 9 lessons to plan for every week. Maybe you have English level 1, which you teach 3 times per week (3 lessons), English level 2 3 times per week, and English level 3 3 times per week. Something like that?
At the previous school I worked at I had no repeated classes because the student enrollment was so low. I taught each of my classes once to one group of students. So I was making 24 lesson plans per week. That is something I cannot do. Would I ever run into this situation in public schools in Korea?
Making a few lesson plans that you end up not needing is no big deal. But when you spend hours poring over books and making an entire semester plan, only to find out later that the book you spent so much time reading (and the lesson plans you've worked so hard on) won't even be used really hurts
I expect bad organization. I don't mind it to a certain degree. Ending up in the wrong classrooms, classes cancelled unexpectedly, etc. That's no problem. The problems I mention above are the things that drive me insane. I am sure that there is no other country in the world that could beat Thailand for lack of organization, and I'm sure all teachers in Thailand would agree with that. |
I teach at 2 middle schools and one HS. The 2 MS schools use different text books. The HS I have no text book.
So 3 level of MS with 3 different text books=6 lessons.
Then I have a HS 1st grade with no text book=1 lesson
I see my 3rd grade MS 3 times a week. One of those lessons comes from the book the others I have to do my own which ='s 2 more
Then I have a MS and HS supplementary class once a week so ='s 2 more
So that makes 11 lessons a week. I underestimated.
I do save any previous lessons I've made and recycle them within the correct level. And some lessons are the same in the text books. So a little changing here and there and I'm good. The problem comes when they change text books. I've been here 3 years and have used about 12 different text books. And sometimes no text books at all. |
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thegadfly
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| vchampea wrote: |
| hubbahubba wrote: |
| Ah, I see you want to be a teacher, but you don't want to work like one. Good luck with it. I know many folks here who have just that attitude. You should fit right in. Sorry, I know that was harsh, but come on... |
If you knew what I've been through with my last job you wouldn't say that. I can work like a teacher but I have my limits. I'm not superman Like I said, for my last job I had to create 12 curricula in 2 weeks. I was not given the previous curricula for any of the classes, just the books that the students would be using (for one of my classes, not even a book!). I worked during the day and the evenings (including weekends!) for the 2 weeks before school started. Then on the first day of school the director realized they didn't have enough books for the students so they had to change half the textbooks. Half the lesson plans that I made became worthless because I couldn't use the textbook that I thought I was going to use. Once school started not only was I teaching most of the day, I was awake very late at night trying to finish my curricula and lesson plans for all my classes. I was exhausted every day. Then all the other foreign teachers at the school bailed and I was given as much overtime as they could fit in my schedule, which left me with only evenings to do my lesson planning. Needless, to say, I quit. I later found out that almost every teacher that comes to that school has broken their contract early because of the school's absolutely terrible administration and organization.
I hope you can see why I am cautious about this. School administrators cannot expect recent college graduates to be program developers for their English department, especially if the college graduate has no background in education. If they want program developers they need to hire somebody who has experience in that area. I'm not asking for much. I just want to know, are most schools going to have textbooks? Will they give me the curriculum from the previous year? And exactly how many classes will I be planning for every week? If I'm given the textbook and the curriculum from the previous year I'm sure I can make lesson plans for at least 3 different classes. Is that really asking for too much? I think that's reasonable.
CT's means co-teacher, correct? I'm not sure what KT stands for. |
This bolded part is pretty much a job description of being a first-year teacher at a new school in the US. You are given a week to come up with your curriculum and plans for the year, and you have to submit your lesson plans weeks, if not months in advance. It is a lot of work -- hence the fantastic pay rate that US teachers receive...oh wait, teachers in the US get paid jack...so this is why teachers in the US are held in such high esteem...oh wait, no, they aren't.... It IS why there is such a high burnout rate among teachers in the US, though.
You may have had a ton of overtime classes, and they may have worked you like a dog for them...but lesson planning is part of the basic job -- if you can't plan your own lessons, you can't do the job, and you aren't actually a teacher. |
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vchampea
Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Redcap wrote: |
CT= Co-teacher
KT= Korean Teacher
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Thanks.
| Redcap wrote: |
your CT may restrict your participation to repeating words or sentences in English from the textbook, in which case your biggest challenge will be to remain conscious.
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My second job in Thailand was kind of like this. The teaching between me and my CT was balanced quite well, but some days consisted of lots of call and response. I loved this school because they actually had things coordinated between all the teachers. We all shared out lesson plans, which were mostly provided for us. The lesson plans were really basic so it was up to us to find a fun and creative way to teach the material to the students.
| thegadfly wrote: |
You may have had a ton of overtime classes, and they may have worked you like a dog for them...but lesson planning is part of the basic job -- if you can't plan your own lessons, you can't do the job, and you aren't actually a teacher. |
I am not against lesson planning at all. I can do it and I am willing to do it, but what that school expected from me was just ridiculous. I would not tolerate that workload for any kind of job. I will not allow my job to rob me of my physical and mental health. If that makes "real" teachers want to call me superficial, so be it. No employer should exhaust their teachers like that. It's not good for the teachers, it's not good for the students.
The director from that school would always say "That's the life of a teacher" whenever I would comment on the ridiculous workload that she gave me. This was just her excuse for the terrible administration. I realized later that the reason the school administration couldn't provide me with any of the previous year's curricula is because all the teachers who worked there just bailed unexpectedly after they had enough and didn't care to leave any of their lesson plans behind.
Good administration can greatly reduce the workload for everybody and improve the education of the students. Ideally all teachers should be sharing resources. Unfortunately this is not the case. |
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mmstyle
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: wherever
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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warmachineinkorea....I am always amazed when I hear about people who make that many lesson plans in a week. How do you do it? I am not capable of doing that many lesson plans in week. Well, perhaps I should say, I am not capable of making that many QUALITY lesson plans in a week.
I try make sure my plans are cohesive and useful, and that they connect with each other (I make units of lesson plans, 3 or 4 lessons per unit).
This is a completely serious question...how the hell do you do that? Moreover, how the hell do you keep track of that many lessons?
OP, for reference... I teach at Middle School. I teach all 3 grades, and I teach 5 different types of classes. I plan 3 full lesson plans for each week (I see each class once a week for regular class) and an after school class. The after school class is very relaxed and is a lot more activity based than plan based. I make or tweak everything I use, because my CTs don't want to take time to talk about what is going on, or share the materials.
They added something new this semester, which I haven't figured out what the hell to do about it. I;m still working on "plans" for this one. |
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vchampea
Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:48 am Post subject: So what about hagwons? |
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Yes, I am equally amazed at how warmachineinkorea makes that many lesson plans a week. I suppose if you've been doing it for a while, you can really get a routine down so that you don't waste any time.
I just want to clarify, when we say lesson plan, we are talking about plans for one day of class. Is that right? mmstyle, you say you see your class just once per week? Those must be long periods, not the standard 50-60 minute period.
After all this discussion, I'm just wondering if a hagwon would be better for me. In the issues we've discussed so far, how do hagwons compare? Hagwon jobs are always 30+ teaching hours per week. The school must be providing the bulk of the lesson plans.
I'm going through the application process with EPIK right now. They require a lot more than hagwons do for their applications. I think after all this is done I'm not sure I will want to work for EPIK. I don't like the fact that I don't know where I will placed or what kind of school I will teach at before coming to Korea. Recruiters for hagwons will try to get me as much information as they can before I sign any contract. I can even talk to current or previous teachers. I think I feel more comfortable with that. |
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